Thanh-Tam Le wrote:

>...  Granted, praise does not mean much if it comes from a person who
>loves everything on a same, single level.  And criticism is healthy --
>as far as it is a path towards open, full discussion, understanding, and
>not a final destination per se.  As anybody, ...  I appreciate some
>composers far above some others.  Being aware of my lack of affinity for
>some composers might be of some interest for people interested in me, or
>more seriously, in taking some useful, "translated" information from the
>advice I try to give sometimes.

Yes. This, although expressed rather better than I managed, is the point I was
trying to make.

>But is it so relevant to the music itself?

It wasn't intended to be.  Anyone reading this list will be aware that
"hates/bored by/likes/loves" describes a subjective response, not an
objective attribute of the music.

OTOH, I can imagine that a collective shout of "We Don't Like That!" might
have an effect on future compositions.  I assume that the first-generation
Johann Bach took note of what his audiences liked, what worked and what
didn't, and passed the information on to his sons.  Johann Sebastian Bach
would thus have had not only his innate talent but two generations of
practical advice about what appealed to particular audiences.  Composers
in the future won't have that advantage if everything is applauded
uncritically.

Running two (supposedly) unrelated paragraphs together:

>And if, by chance, somebody ever manages to unfold real greatness in that
>piece I did not like, then it would be a credit to both of us.
>
>Now I know that Mr. Varley does not like Messiaen.  I wish this launched
>a response from people who actually love Messiaen

So do I.  It seems that whenever Mozart is criticised, dozens of people
will rush to his defence (although he has no need of them).  Where are
Messiaen's advocates?

I'll try again.

I find Messiaen's music boring.  OK, there are other composers whose music
I find boring, but they aren't played anywhere near so frequently.  The
music I find especially boring is the Catalogue des Oiseaux (sp?).  That's
subjective, of course.  Objectively, I would also question whether, given
the availability of tape-recorders, transcriptions of birdsong can properly
be called compositions and have any value as music.

Peter Varley
[log in to unmask]