[log in to unmask] writes:

>and how many times does one hear 4'33"? honestly.  I have yet to hear
>the whole peice performed.  I heard a bit in my Music Appreciation class.
>anyhow.  I feel the the whole idea is to be natural.

First of all, this is silly!  How could you have heard a bit in Music
Appreciation??? Was it a recording of the work? Ha ha that would be a good
way to fill up a disc, just turn on the machine for 4'33"...but seriously,
did someone do the abridged version of 4'33"?? 2'16.5"? Though I agree with
the writer, it is not performed enough, and I would like to program it on
a trio concert (shameless plug follows) http://www.serafinotrio.com.

Wes Crone wrote:

>Well, not to sound sarcastic but, I have hear 4'33" every 4 minutes and 33
>seconds that I'm walking to class or walking out to my car in the parking
>lot or what have you.  I even can hear 4'33" while I'm heading to the lobby
>for some Reese's.  Why should I have to sit and watch some "perfformers"

that should be performers, Wes.

>when I can hear the piece on my way to the snack-bar or anywhere else for
>that matter.  Remember, 4'33" streeses

That's stresses, Wes.  Don't you proofread your posts? I don't care about
typos, but at least read over your stuff before you post.  Makes ya look
silly.

>the music which is all around us, all the time.  Why not have a
>Butterfinger and enjoy the music even more?

Well, you do sound sarcastic, Wes, don't try to deny everything you say
before you say it.  Good progress on the ellipses, BTW.  The problem here
is you miss the entire point of the work, which is ok, but you shouldn't be
sarcastic about abstract ideas you don't understand because it makes you
look silly.  The point is, you *don't* hear 4'33" on your way to the snack
bar, you hear the chaos of the noise of the day, unorganized, and you don't
really listen to it, in fact we reject it, who wants to listen to cars and
televisions and people farting in the lobby of the theater, but when it is
the silence of the concert hall, when it is organized as a concert piece
of music, when John Cage tells you to *listen* to the sound of "silence"
then you really hear the "music" that naturally occurs in silence.  The
important distinction to me is the fact that it is in the concert hall
during a presentation of music that we hear this piece.  It becomes, then,
organized sound instead of chaos.  And music is nothing more than organized
sound.  In your accessible music, Wes, perhaps you organize the sound using
traditional western instruments playing pleasing, familiar melodies, thus
organizing the sound, the vibrations of sound, in a certain way.  How is
this different, then, from organizing sound by simply utilizing nothing
more than the naturally occurring sounds in the silence of a concert hall?
The deep and emotional sound of your own breathing and heartbeat*(see note)
the exquisite tension of someone slowly unwrapping a Butterfinger, coughs
and whispers, laughter, sheepbells, if it is organized, it is music.

*Cage once went into a scientifically soundproof room, a place absolutely
devoid of any outside noise, and listened to the music of his own body.
His heartbeat, a low hum from the circulatory system, a highpitched sound
of his body's electrical system.  Harmony and rhythm.

David Runnion
www.serafinotrio.com