> martha gilliam's research clearly states that the nutrition in the hive is
dependent on microorganism activity.
Dean, I can't find where she "clearly states" that at all! In fact, the
word "nutritional" in only used twice in the paper, and the word "dependent"
is completely absent. I respectfully feel that you are stretching again.
However, she certainly implies that fermented bee bread is more
nutritious--an idea that I doubt anyone on this List would dispute.
>in fact, it is an interesting comparison of data to read martha gilliam
talk about the fermentation starting when the bees collect the pollen
Indeed it is! Gilliam states that there is "a 115-fold increase in
titratable acidity for
free organic acids in corbicular pollen compared to floral pollen indicating
active fermentation"
Please note that she says that free organic acids increase 115-fold, and
that is *before* lactic fermentation in the cell! In case you don't get the
point, formic acid is a "free organic acid."
>formic acid (the active ingredient) has been proven to be a
> formidable bactericide, fungicide and anti viral agent."
As is lactic acid, acetic acid, and the other acids naturally occurring in
bee bread. That is why lactose-fermented foods and silage are produced--the
organic acids preserve them. BTW, the strong sugar concentration of honey
is toxic to yeasts and bacteria. As is the deadly hydrogen peroxide that it
produces via glucose oxidase.
> >>unless you don't believe that microbial activity has anything to do with
> nutrition in honeybees wrt pollen
This isn't about belief, its about nutrition. And there is plenty of
evidence to suggest that bee bread is more nutritious than raw pollen. No
one is arguing against that.
> it would be hard to imagine that formic acid has _no_ impact on the
> nutritive value of pollen
I have never considered myself to be lacking in imagination, but since
naturally-fermented beebread already contains formic acid, it's not
difficult for me to imagine that formic fumigation for mites may very well
not have any effect upon the nutritive value of pollen at all! You'd simply
be pickling the pickle briefly, and at a low concentration
Dean, do you really think that a concentration of formic acid that the bees
entirely ignore (personal observations around MitaAwayII pads) is going to
entirely eliminate the nutritive value of the naturally highly acidic bee
bread in the comb? The bacteria and fungi that produce bee bread are
naturally acid resistant--they produce acids in order to prevent competition
from other microorganisms. If any critter in the hive is likely to be
unaffected by formic acid, it would be the fermentation organisms!
>
>
> >>"Identiącation and roles of non-pathogenic microŁora associated
> with honey bees" by gilliam only seems to support the idea that pollen must
> be fermented for the bees to digest it properly.
If you change the word "properly" to "more efficiently," then we are in
total agreement!
But it's a long stretch from there to damn the amount of formic acid
released slowly by MiteAwayII pads.
Dean, this isn't about argument, you are presenting an easily testable
hypothesis.
Field data indicate that northern colonies treated with formic in fall
(which would treat all the stored pollen, since no new pollen would be
available until the next spring) are able to thrive and rear early brood
just fine on the nutrition provided by such formic-treated pollen.
Since formic readily evaporates, leaving little or no residue, it would not
be expected to accumulate in the combs, and not have any effect in
subsequent years.
Lacking any data whatsoever that normal treatment of colonies with
MiteAwayII has a negative effect upon bee nutrition, I await any information
to the contrary. Until then, I'll give the product the benefit of the
doubt.
Randy Oliver
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