Hi P-O

Sorry about the delay, I have a rather large backlog as a result of the 
National Honey Show in UK.

On an off-topic note, I was pleased to meet Michael & Kirsten Traynor, 
who I believe frequent this list.

I hope this discussion is not becoming polarised, into 'for and 
against', because I believe in 'horses for courses' and one horse may 
suite your course better than mine.

> I hope you don't refer to Buckfast as "Italian hybrids",
I certainly, do not consider Buckfast as a hybrid, I use the term 
'synthesised bee' to describe them.

> And no, mixes between races 
> don't produce hot bees if both lines are gentle to start with.

This has not been my personal experience in UK.

> Buckfast is here among most considered the gentlest of all races...and
> the race that best can handle mixing with other races without getting hot.

In the first place you cannot claim Buckfast as a 'race' in the 
established meaning of the term, but again in UK, I have found quite bad 
degeneration of Buckfast or AMM in the first cross between the two, to 
the extent Buckfast bees, deliberately bought in to provide safe 
handling for beginners on a course, became evil followers and stingers 
upon crossing. This has occurred with several versions of Buckfast, 
several versions of AMM, various Ligustica type mongrels and supposedly 
'pure bred' Carniolans.

> When it comes to gentleness my criteria is bees that never fly up in 
> your face.

Agreed, this is one of my reasons for choosing AMM.

  A sting on the hand if you move too fast is tolerated.

Why ? I do not wish to tolerate it, nor would I expect it in well 
refined stocks. I wish to be able to work quickly without any special 
precautions.

In another post on this thread...

> This will mean demand for easy managed bees suited for larger operations will increase. Those bees that need swarm preventive actions etc, that takes longer time to manage will not be suitable.

Exactly !
For me these criteria are met by stable well behaved AMM, as luck would 
have it, the indigenous bee of the area I live in, I wish I were a young 
man again and I could re-live all the enjoyment I derived from breeding 
such bees.

I admit there are other methods of breeding that can be followed, the 
one adopted by Murray McGregor has a great deal going for it, again if I 
  were a younger man, I would like to see large scale trials of both 
methods compared in detail over a large number of seasons, but that is 
'pie in the sky'.


Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY
http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman or http://www.dave-cushman.net
Short FallBack M/c, Build 6.02/3.1 (stable)

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