>What is theamount of imidacloprid that was applied in Calif. by ALL
methods?

That is a very good question, Stan.  I have not made the effort to track
down an answer.

Could everyone please keep in mind that I am NOT trying to sell neonics,
and would just as soon that no pesticides were ever applied to any crops!

What we are discussing here is the validity of certain scientific
experiments, and their applicability to "real life."

There is abundant scientific data, as well as even more abundant beekeeper
anecdotal experience, that colonies thrive just fine even when their main
sources of nectar and pollen contain low residues of imidacloprid or
clothianidin,  We should keep this in mind when someone tries to
extrapolate from some lab study (and I am completely in favor of performing
lab studies) suggests that a hive will crash after such and such exposure
to a sublethal dose of a product.

All one need do is to go outdoors and look at thriving hives on treated
canola (residues in the majority of colony food intake), corn (residues in
the small amount of corn pollen that is brought in), or soy (residues in
the nectar).  Real-life observations in my mind tell me that some of the
extrapolations from some lab studies are unsound.

What is typically lacking in these studies is PERSPECTIVE.  Few run
controls in which the bees are exposed to common plant allelochemicals or
to other pesticides.  Without such positive controls, we have no
perspective as to the degree to which other toxins to which bees are
commonly exposed affect their RNA expression, their longevity, navigation,
etc.  When one only studies the effects of imidacloprid, one will surely
find all sorts of effects.  But we should keep in mind that this would
likely apply to any chemical, natural or synthetic.

Let's look at my drug of choice this morning--an hot water extract of
brewed roasted coffee beans.  Over 1,000 chemicals have been reported in
roasted coffee, and 19 are known rodent carcinogens.  Coffee also contains
the toxin caffeine, a strong neurostimulant.  Coffee contains a currently
unknown chemical agent which stimulates the production of cortisone and
adrenaline.  Coffee can damage the lining of the gastrointestinal organs,
causing gastritis and ulcers, and increases the risk of glaucoma.  Coffee
can cause nervous hyperactivity, irritability, anxiety and insomnia. One
study suggests a possible link between the  cafestol and kahweol in coffee
with higher levels of cholesterol in the body.  In wome n, caffeine can
pass through the placenta and negatively affect a fetus.  The polyphenols
in coffee can interfere with iron absorption.  Consumption of coffee is
associated with significant elevations in biochemical markers of
inflammation.

Yet 54% of adult Americans drink coffee every day.  I suggest that we try
to put some of the sublethal effects discovered in lab studies into
"real-life" PERSPECTIVE.

I'm getting damn tired of people trying to paint me as some sort of
defender of pesticides.  Nothing could be further from the truth!  What I
am trying to defend is good science, and to constructively note the faults
of poorly-designed or extrapolated studies.

-- 
Randy Oliver
Grass Valley, CA
www.ScientificBeekeeping.com

             ***********************************************
The BEE-L mailing list is powered by L-Soft's renowned
LISTSERV(R) list management software.  For more information, go to:
http://www.lsoft.com/LISTSERV-powered.html