From: Peter L Borst <[log in to unmask]>
>So, then, what has been your experience and what would you recommend?

Our experience was that after 1 year of using apistan, we felt there had to be a better way.  We are strongly influenced by the writings of Ruth Stout.

After using formic acid, and some vaporized oxalic acid, we were determined to keep bees without treatments...and, we kept losing our bees, usually to varroa mites. (I expect you are not surprised).  Ramona even went to Gunther Hauk's weekend workshop (at least at the time, he was promoting vaporized oxalic acid).

Things changed when we started over with Honey Super Cell (HSC), and let the now smaller bees draw foundationless comb.  We have 4 colonies that are now in their 3rd year without treatments at all.  Our state inspector told us in year one that we would lose all our bees.  In going through 20 colonies with him last year, he claimed to see a single mite (after the fact...he didn't point it out during the inspection).

We've since added a number of colonies from Don "Fatbeeman", who is not completely treatment free, but the bees are already on small cell, and no hard treatments are used by him.

A couple of days ago, we went to one of our outyards to find an inspection report (note:  the inspector is used to tucking the report in the telescoping cover...we have migratory covers, so the bees at the top portion of the report...but not the data).  The report indicates that of the 14 colonies in the yard, they spanned from weak to strong (we don't feed unless absolutely necessary, and it's been a tough year with the rain and all...many were started from nucs in June), he checked for brood diseases, tracheal mites and varroa mites, and none were found.  There was one laying worker and one supercedure reported on the form.

In the interest of full disclosure, I believe the mite check was limited to uncapping cells.  He would like to do an apistan drop to compare our mite counts to his...but since we don't want apistan in our hives, this is not an option.  I've suggested sugar shake, ether roll or alcohol wash to him, but since his data is all based on the apistan drop, he doesn't see the value of doing so.

When we went through the hives, we saw a bit more shriveled wing than I'm used to seeing (but I couldn't find a mite, even though I uncapped a few brood from each hive that I noticed this).  Also, there were some dead and quivering bees on the bottom screen (there is no bottom entrance)...they did not look "greasy", so I'm inclined to think this might be some minor pesticide poisoning rather than a virus.  If i see more, I'll send a sample in for testing.

We also make up observation hives for the markets a couple of times a week (or, we did until recently...trying to leave the bees alone to do their thing for fall), and therefore have a good oppurtunity to see the bees up close and personal quite a bit.  I've seen 2 mites all year (with about 50 colonies).  I'm pretty good at spotting mites on bees (spotted one in the NOVA "tales from the hive" video on a very small tv screen).

so, is it the cell size?

the breeding? (we couldn't keep bees alive without treatments until we went to small cell....could be a coincidence)

the management?

I dunno, but it seems everyone in this area is freaking because their bees don't have stores, even if they've been feeding them.  We are more inclined to let the bees react to the environemnt and grow and shrink as necessary...they've been hand to mouth for much of this season...but now are largely built up, and all have some stores (with the exception of some very weak nucs in our backyard that will be combined soon).

As I posted to Randy, I think the use of artificial metrics to determine survival is flawed...there are too many things that contribute to survivability to measure one or even ten things and assume that they relate to long term survivability...nature isn't so simple.

I should add that we don't do natural mite counts, because frankly, I wouldn't do anything (but let the bees do what they will) if it were high.

In any case, these are my own experiences at this point in time, and if i were to start over, I'd do the same, except that I would purchase some more locally bred queens for the packages we started with 3 years ago rather than using those that came with them from a major supplier in the south.

deknow





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