Hello Joao & All,
I only ask your level of beekeeping. I can't count the number of
presentations I have been in in which the presenter asks the level of the
beekeepers in the meeting.
Gives me an idea of how to respond. The other beekeeper which responded is a
large commercial beekeeper from South America. He also inquired about your
level of beekeeping. Nothing personal by any means by both of us.

>Would you be kind enough to be a little more precise about that?

I said I believed in my post I was correct in my explanation of the way AHB
genetics works. I had four private emails saying I was correct.

 Trust me Joao the list looks for something in my posts they can find fault
with. A couple years ago I posted incorrect information which was given to
me and 20 posts popped up saying "hey wait a minute".

If I get it wrong I want corrected! I always welcome the opposite opinion!
Discussion is the way we learn.

>Back on distribution of European queens: I find it hard to believe
that you got this information from any Brazilian beekeeper.

Are you saying the Europeanists as you call them do not use EU queens as
part of their regular program. I am having a hard time following your train
of thought. Perhaps its the language barrier?


> "Europeanists" in Brazil are, at this very moment, fighting hard and loud
to try changing the mind of the "africanists".

I don't want to get in the middle of this as I can see you are convinced of
your ideals but research & science are on the side of the Europeanists. Dr.
Kerr is considered one of the worlds foremost bee genetisicts and as you say
he is in the corner of the Europeanists.


>They offer a mostly simplistic solution - requeening with open mated
European queens and destroying every feral AHB colony.

I don't know what you mean by open mated unless you are refering to the
virgins below and if so let me explain to you why the virgins. perhaps no
one has ever taken the time. I will. Destroying feral AHB removes the drone
source. The AHB drones are a big part of the problem

> Maybe, being at their side, you could tell them one or two little things,
because they accept no ponderings from any AHB keeper.

Because of the release in 57 a huge amount of research and research dollars
have been devoted to the study of AHB. We know quite a bit. We know what
works and what doesn't. You quote Caron & Winston which in my opinion is
primative information. Interesting reading but lacked the science needed to
understand the problem. A first read for those interested.

 >others fear that the introduced European bees will prompt the use of
antibiotics and acaricides, which could eventually contaminate the
exported honey and cause an international ban, just like the one on
Argentina's and China's two/three years ago.

Like I said tens of thousands of European queens have been imported and
released in Brazil over the last 49 years wether you want to believe or not.

As for the antibiotics found in China honey (chloramphenical) and Agentena
(nitrofurons). We have never figured out what they were used to control. Our
researchers felt ignorance was the reason they were used to try and control
a beekeeping problem. Our researchers said neither would control AFB or EFB.

>So, unless you prove that I'm wrong, I can only imagine that you
inferred this situation from quick readings and light talkings.

I am no expert on AHB but when I talk to experts like Alfredo Platinetty
they never go over my head in converstation. I have got every article that's
ever been published on AHB since 57 in my files.
Both books you talk about.

> What do you think about solving the problem of AHB aggression in US by
distributing a proportional number of Italian queens?

Kill the AHB feral colonies and keep EU queens in hives is the solution in
the U.S. for now. Has worked in Texas for commercial beekeepers. We believe
will work in Florida (at least at the start)


Joao let me help you here. Let me help you understand. I always learned more
by listening than I ever did by talking.

>Second, a small detail not many people pay attention to: all the
queens were virgin. Can you imagine what's the probability of success in
introducing a *virgin*, *italian* queen in a africanized colony?

The reason for the virgin queen is  hives do not see a virgin queen as a
threat. Only the AHB queen might try to kill the virgin but even then most
likely she would leave alone. Mated queens are harder to introduce than
virgins. When the virgin flys out and returns with the mating sign the bees
most likely will think she is a supercedure queen and acept her. research in
Mexico shows using virgins to requeen AHb works.

She will have most likely open mated with an AHb drone BUT the drones she
raises WILL BEE European and not AHb since the drone has no father. The
second and maybe as important point is that she will be less inclined to
swarm. Her workers will be 50% Africanized which might or might not reduce
aggressive behavior. The mating could increase honey production by creating
a hybrid bee with a 30% increase of what we call hybrid vigor.

> Do you still think it can really have helped to
tame AHB in Brazil?

Without a doubt. The constant swarming is the problem. Reduce the amount of
AHB drones in the area and you reduce the level of AHb in the area.

In Florida the AHB expert has said their studies have seen some feral swarms
swarming up to 16 times in a season. In Mexico & Texas 8 is max. In South
Africa with pure scutellata  16 is not unusual. Alfredo said it seems the
swarming gentics is very strong in the AHB in South Florida. A problem which
makes stopping the spread very difficult.

Over twenty years ago the largest beekeeper in the world at the time said to
me "You can't believe everything you read in beekeeping books". As your
knowledge level in beekeeping rises you begin to understand the wisdom of
his words. Same with many internet web sites.

BEE-L is still in my opinion the top beekeeping talk list. You will in my
opinion get the straight information on a subject on BEE-L. The archives
contain priceless information from some of the top minds in the beekeeping
world.

I enjoy your posts Joao! Hope I have helped by explaining a few areas you
may not be clear on. Most of beekeeping is not black or white but gray. I
always keep an open mind.

Sincerely,
Bob Harrison

"What we do not know is so vast it makes what we do know seem absurd" Bob
Harrison

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