> I should take this back, and rephrase as a question!  Do others find that
> there are more mite problems in larger apiaries?

Only applies to those using "treatment free".

Varroa control for those commercial beekeepers using treatments (as needed)
has not changed since the start. The math concerning varroa has not changed.
What has changed is a percent of smaller beekeepers are claiming success
now treatment free.

Dr. Shiminuki said we should  have a bee which would survive varroa without
treatments in commercial operations in 20 years. Has not happened yet.

I was asked to research the possibility of reduced varroa control *years
ago*
by large commercial beekeepers.  (and documented in the archives)
Completed five years later.

My first step was to follow the lead of Dr. Shiminuki ( now retired head of
the USDA Beltsville Lab) and look into the Russian bee and various survivor
queen programs. Consult with Baton Rouge (Dr. Harbo & Harris) on their
survivor queen program.  Before SMR.

I devoted at least 100 hives a year to the program (treatment free and
headed by Russian program queens, survivor queens and Purvis Brothers
survivor queens)

I found Dann Purvis and headed to his home in a remote area of Georgia ,
stayed in a motel for days ,
was taught instrumental insemination (II) and helped with his research. I
brought back to Missouri many II survivor queens.(Purvis Blue line & gold
line)

Dann Purvis learned II from Sue Cobey and has helped her teach classes. The
Purvis apiary lab was better equipped than commercial beekeeper labs I have
ever been at. Dann started working to building a queen operation which his
four sons could take over and run. Sadly the boys have all left and went
into other occupations, However Dann and his wife relocated to rural
Tennessee on acreage but Dann still has his Gold line up and running with no
treatments. Dann still sells queens but they cost about twice the price of
*cheap* production queens. Even those will not pay for his years of hard
work working on a bee which will survive treatment free long term. Dann and
I  talked last month and have remained good friends. When the subject of bee
breeding comes up I am his pupil.


Dee Lusby is the only beekeeper *I know of* with a large number of hives
completely treatment free. Her success can not be explained away by simply
saying her bees are Africanized (AHB). Her success can not be explained away
by small cell alone.

Commercial beekeepers ran experiments which were  *never made public*.
Experiments run in Texas using all AHB colonies did not produce bees varroa
tolerant. Experiments run in Florida using commercial production bees on
small cell did not produce mite free hives.

My personal hypothesis based on my hundreds of hives headed by Russian &
various survivor queens is they can survive fine for several years when not 
used in commercial
migratory conditions. Some survive by either keeping small clusters or
shutting down queen rearing many times a year.

Certain USDA researchers have put forward the hypothesis that the failure of
the raising varroa tolerant bees by the survivor hypothesis by Harris &
Harbo ( before the SMR & hygienic success)
would have been a success today if the Russian import bee was around to
incorporate into the process.

Both Dann Purvis and myself used the Russian first import but kept separate
from the Italian line. many others (like Kirk Webster for example *with
respect* ) incorporated the Russian line in and claimed a survivor bee was
found.

I only say the above to point out that the Purvis Gold line does not contain
Russian genetics and the Dee Lusby survivor line also does not contain
purposely added Russian genetics. Purvis spoke with Baton Rouge at the start
and *in my opinion* came up with the bee they quit on after six years of
research.

For those *new* to the list you can research the archives and learn about my
survivor experiments or possibly locate my Russian article in Bee Culture of
my Purvis Brothers Apiaries article in the American Bee Journal.

My thoughts on the Russian bee has not changed. They are not the bee I would
want *today* in a commercial migratory operation but the bee I *would* want
to start with if working towards  going treatment free.

I really liked the Purvis Gold line bees but once I made the decision to 
continue on the IPM path with my bees I felt little need to persue 
"treatment free".

I am running bees from several sources this year and none are varroa 
tolerant and my bees look great.
*If* I see a problem I treat.

I do wish the "treatment free" people success and consider their research 
important.

I will never forget the temperament of the first *blue* line of Russian bees
I worked in the high mountain country of Georgia. Dann and I did not take
the time for bee suits when we would run out to get drones for semen or get
virgin queens from the queen bank. Those bees were "hot" to work. I thought
their temperament would change once established in Missouri but the bees
stayed testy.

The last Russian/Russian queens Herbert Tubbs (Russian queen breeder) sent
me were very gentle but still had the Russian qualities of queens stopping
laying many times and slow to respond to my efforts of stimulation as the
first Russian  bees I worked with. However vary varroa tolerant and as I
reported years ago I saw almost no virus issues despite the high varroa
loads the bees seemed able to tolerate.

Personal conversation with "Shim" in one of his presentations years ago
"Shim" said one of the factors which influenced his decision to import the
Russian line was based on the lack of PMS (virus issues) in the Russian
hives despite mite loads when the USDA team was in Russia checking Russian
hives.

Also based on research on bees able to survive varroa without problems as
long as free of virus issues done in the U.K. (Ball & Carrick).

I learned that Russian crosses quickly lost mite tolerance & virus issues
started .(personal experience)

The Russian program was a brilliant idea of the USDA researcher I have often
said was *in my opinion* the most knowledgeable USDA researcher to head the
USDA-ARS in over fifty years of my beekeeping involvement.

I noticed in my last American Beekeeping Federation newsletter Dr. Shiminuki
donated money for the preservation of honey bees fund. I would love to hear
his thoughts on the subject.

If reading the archives one I might observe Dr. Shiminuki (Shim) and I did
not agree on every subject but we did agree on most beekeeping subjects.

Dann Purvis and I did not agree on every beekeeping subject.

However in my opinion both these people have helped greatly with  their 
efforts to
find the varroa tolerant bee we have looked for for decades!

bob

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