On Sun, 9 Nov 2008 00:45:20 GMT, [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> i asked a fairly straightforward question of peter who gave an example (and hinted at others) that honeybees, when exposed to varroa, will all die without human intervention.  do you believe that if all varroa treatment were stopped (or had never started) in north america, that all honeybees so exposed in north america would die?  this is an important question.

First, let me say that I am reluctant to answer this or any other
question from you because of the heavy load of foregone conclusions
you insist on bringing to the table. Second, almost everything I have
said in the past is misinterpreted by you either because I am an
incredibly bad at explaining or?

my response:

That is an utterly amazing leap from what I said to what you think I
said. But look, "the bees" have been in North America less than 600
years. Furthermore, beekeeping in modern hives has been going on for
even less time. We certainly know that species that come under our
influence can go extinct pretty quickly. Are you sure we haven't
damaged the honeybee stock in North America to such an extent that it
cannot survive in the wild? We have done it to innumerable other
species. That is why there are collections of heirloom seeds and why
there are organizations in Europe that aim to preserve original honey
bee stock, lest we foul them up permanently through our so-called
improvements.

But back to the original question. Do I claim that left to their own
devices ... no, because that is simply conjecture. Bees will not be
left to "their own devices", any more than there is but a smattering
of this earth left where human beings don't control and manage
everything. Furthermore, there in my statement is my actual thought,
which is that "left to their own devices" the European honey bees
would be replaced by Apis mellifera scutellata, as it has been from
Brazil all the way to Mexico, much of Texas, Florida, parts of
California and of course, Arizona.

"Left to their own devices", African bees resurged in South Africa
(Mike Allsopp) and colonized a huge area of the Americas. Meanwhile,
with our help, the demise of the European honey bee has been
forestalled with various chemicals, no doubt to the detriment of the
industry and the animal. This is widely known. What is not widely
known is what we are going to do about it. You and your friends may be
on to something. If you are, then I salute you. But wild claims are
not something I am susceptible to.



-- 
Peter L Borst

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