From: randy oliver <[log in to unmask]>
>You are using the wrong words, Dean. The dsRNA is an exact copy of natural dsRNA.
...except that the "exact copy" is produced in a lab? But we are back at that word "natural" again (still).
from: http://www.ilsi.org.il/companies_life_science_company.asp?ID=1432
"Preparing for commercialization, our team has developed and refined a unique breakthrough in manufacturing exceptionally large quantities of high quality double stranded RNA (dsRNA) at a very competitive cost. This technology-upscale-regulation platform encompasses the processes that enable the significant acceleration in the development of RNAi applications."
...I don't know the details of the manufacturing process, but something tells me that this dsRNA isn't being grown on trees (or bees, for that matter), that it is instead synthesized in a lab/factory.
In fact, according to the Plos One paper:
http://www.plospathogens.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.ppat.1001160
"dsRNA synthesis
Essentially as described in [11]."
...so I found footnote 11:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2583.2009.00847.x/full
"IAPV sequences corresponding to the intergenic region (bases 6168–6594; gi|124494152; 426 b) and to a viral sequence known to integrate into the bee genome (bases 8977–9410; gi|124494152; 433 b) were used for cloning. The two sequences were PCR-amplified with IAPV-specific primers carrying a 5′ tail of the T7 promoter. Each PCR product was T/A-cloned into the plasmid pDrive. The inserts were PCR-amplified, and since they carried T7 promoters at both ends were used as templates for T7-depended in-vitro transcription, resulting in ds RNA product of the inserted sequence. Following propagation of plasmid DNA, the viral fragments, including the T7 promoters, were excised, gel-purified, and used as templates for T7-directed transcription in vitro. The reaction product was subjected to DNase digestion followed by phenol extraction and ethanol precipitation. The final preparation was dissolved in nuclease-free water."
...sounds less and less "natural" to me....but it would help if we had a definition of how you are using the word natural.
>And it does not "target" anything, it simply offers a natural
template to the bee, so that the bee can initiate its own natural acquired immunity, via RISC.
If it is designed specifically to initiate a specific immune response, it "targets" the virus susceptible to that particular immune response.
>>, I think you are going to have to define "natural" for us...
>I think that you are starting to get it! Yes, business as usual!
Business as usual...except that the immune response has been divorced from the effects of the infectious disease on the population. How/when does this happen in nature?
>Yes, just like Edward Jenner's application of cowpox to a scratch in the skin to elicit the natural production of antibodies to smallpox in humans. New and powerful!
Jenner's work was based on observation and folk wisdom...but to me, technology implies a practical application of scientific knowledge...Jenner didn't know about germs...his work on the small pox vaccine was essentially based on anecdotal reports and observation, not the practical application of scientific knowledge (he did produce scientific knowledge, but was the result of his vaccine, not the inspiration). I think one must also look at the state of medical care at the time of Jenner's work...we can point to what he did and say, "look how brilliant" (and it was), but it was an extension of centuries old folk medicine...we can now point to some of the specific health benefits of chicken soup, but my grandmother was following a tradition, not exploiting a technology...same with Jenner.
>the bees don't "encounter a high concentration of dsRNA"--they produce it themselves when exposed to the first virus strands that attempt to replicate.
Absent Remebee application, what is the naturally occurring concentration of IAPV specific dsRNA in a honey bee colony? If it was so naturally occurring and the concentration was not a factor, all of our bees would already have immunity to IAPV...since they don't, then the dsRNA has to be introduced in order to see the effect...and clearly concentration matters....or will 1 double strand/colony do the job?
>Immunity was acquired by a very few hives in the control group
Were you able to establish that these immune control hives acquired the immunity via exposure to IAPV? ...or is there a possibility of an inherited (genetic or otherwise) resistance? In your article, you cite one unmedicated colony "thriving"....what signs of resistance to IAPV do the other "few hives" show if they are not surviving and thriving?
>All the rest died. That is the natural process. So I would call that an appreciable impact from the disease.
Yes, when you fed the bees syrup containing some unspecified (but likely many times stronger than what is required to infect a colony) concentration of IAPV most of them died. You had specifically used queens that were from lines that had not been exposed to varroa....but in the list of "practical applications" in the same article, you state clearly:
"Propagation of resistant stock. It’s equally clear that bees (at either the colony or population level) are able to develop resistance to any virus that comes along (one, but only one, of the unmedicated control colonies in my test yard is thriving, despite having been inoculated). Breeding from survivors is our best long-term hope for dealing with colony collapse, no matter what the cause(es)."
So yes, if you select lines that have not been exposed to varroa, "(in the expectation that they might lack resistance to viruses)." So you chose susceptible stock, gave them a disease that you expected they had no resistance to, and now claim that it is a natural process that caused them to die.
deknow
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