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Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology <[log in to unmask]>
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Thu, 9 Nov 2017 02:08:57 +0000
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   .  The one constant, the bees accommodate an put up with a lot of nonsense from  us.


WOW,  that statement is a keeper!

I did intend to leave names out,  The one mentioned is by no means alone in his constant crowing from the fencepost.
I do suspect in all cases there is something to be seen an learned.  Its difficult when stubborness and crappy attitudes get in the way.    In this thread  I got snide comments because  "I sell packages"  so yea  a lot of attitude gets thrown around.    Its frustrating,  as that one and several others make claimes of no losses in years,  while its 100% obvious they have no clue as to why,  if we could learn it may be helpful.  I too have trouble swallowing the "18 frames of brood"  junk.   I myself have some serious monster hives in spring, 4 and 5 deeps full of bees  but never seen  2 deeps "full"  seen big cluster that span 2 deeps,  but not fill them.
I had a couple of offline questions about how I manage singles.    so to complete the thought,  the singles are run from about mid april until sept.  Coming out of almonds I like doubles as they are easier to split and manage its a pain to split 1 1/2s  so in spring the queen is pushed down,  and brood is put abouve teh excluder  giving here all that empty space to repeat and fill. a week to 10days later after shes had time to lay,  the top box is split off,  an excluder put on.  2/3 honey supers go on right away depending on mass of bees this is on the split,  new queen installed.   In my case normally weather permitting another deep body is put on the laying queen for a second split in 6 weeks.  some new frames in each box.  just a couple, 
these are run all summer as singles with and excluder  IF the excluder is put on when the box is full  they do a great job of getting used to it, and its a non issue.  Much different than late excluders or putting excluders on doubles.     A big key ais as they fill those supers,  get them off!  to many times we leave them on and the bees eat that honey.   I don't know how to phrase it or define it,  but empty supers on a hive seems to drive them to keep going.  let them get a super or two of honey and they slow down.  I know the science says super location doesn't matter,  but the ones I have seen tested the basis is wrong,  Nadair,  or undersupering is work,  but darn well worth it to me.  I know most look for a paper to support being lazy,  and at times it doesnt matter,  but in my yards  trial and error shows it helps.  empty space right above the brood keeps that queen working longer.
For me end of flow is mid september,  so I pull all supers then  and switch back to doubles based on how much comb and boxes I have,  you need drawn comb late season as they wont draw any more.   I go to doubles again,  for almonds and spring splitting ease.  it would be just as easy to go to 1 1/2 or 2 supers depending on winter needs.   I tend to leave teh excluder in place until mid oct,  but it can be removed at any time.
The comment was made about takeing honey and feeding back,  yes  thats what I do,  but I also leave the goldenrod/ aster honey on the hive,  and one could just as easily leave them honey if that suits one better  no rules...  just what works for me.   This year those "singles" with 3 honey pulls averaged a hair over 150.  singles with 2 pulls around 120,  and singles with one pull  were 85,   all the doubles and towers were well under that.  for me this was the last season of expiriments.
5 years agon we put on 5 supers at a time and left them SHB has changed that  so this is the new method.  Hive crowed tight the whole season.

Charles



   

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