Bill says:

So it all depends on how "different response"  is interpreted. However, to
say that the insect and mammalian response is equivalent misses the point
that they actually are not by a factor of 100!

That was the main point of the discussion, hence the response is
"different" unless a difference of 100x is within the 95% confidence
interval.

Bob, if your definition of "response" is "death", then you are right.  But as a physiologist what I mean by "response" is what happens when the receptor is activated by the ligand.

It takes a lot more neonic to activate a vertebrate nACh receptor than an insect one, as determined by testing in mice and rats vs. various insects (although recent reports are showing that other verts...birds? fish?...might have greater receptor affinities for neonics than rodents do).  Once activated, that nACh receptor produces exactly the same cellular response no matter what crittur it is in.

Please recall that the main point of the discussion was supposed to be "how will adaptation to neonics develop?" and morphed into "what is the difference between nics and neonics?".

Christina

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