>>> I expressed Zero doubt the systemics are killing bees
>
> The above is the most trenchant statement in this discussion.  Most
> of us on the List go out of our way to keep our minds open to all
> possibilities, and to remain doubtful of any of our opinions.

Language can obfuscate real meaning, especially in unqualified statements.

I doubt we are in disagreement on this very basic point.  The devil --
and the debate -- is in the details.

I have zero doubt that the systemics are killing bees and also zero
doubt that they are causing sub-lethal effects.  Insecticides kill and
harm insects.  That is their purpose.

Just a few of the questions in my mind are:

Are systemics killing or negatively affecting enough bees in enough
circumstances to be a worry?

What are the realistic and politically possible alternatives?

Can we measure, predict and manage these events?

Are some systemics more problematic than others?

Do we have more serious internal problems that are being neglected due
to undue emphasis on this external threat.

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