> Here in Canada it used to be the practice in many parts of the country
> to purchase package bees from California each spring and kill them with
> cyanide each fall. This was much more economical than trying to
> overwinter colonies

The economics of packages vs. wintering are difficult to define and open to
question, since there are
so many variables.  Many Canadian beekeepers find wintering to have much
better economics than packages did for them, others cannot make wintering
work for them at all.  One thing is for sure, wintering bees requires much
better management, planning, and beekeeping than package operation.

> I am still struck by the image left when someone  said that their favorite
> hive photo was one that had lots of bees squashed between the supers
> because it showed what a populous hive it  was.

I suspect the above statement refers to my mention of admiration for an
inside cover photo in an old version of  Walter T Kelley's  "How to Keep
Bees and Sell Honey".   I suppose this is a good example of how people can
be misunderstood no matter how carefully they write and re-write.

I like that photo because it shows a reality of beekeeping
unself-consciously, honestly and with a candour that is becoming rare in
these days of political correctness and hypocrisy generated by a protected
and coddled population that has little idea of the realities of how freedom
is won and maintained, how food is produced, and of the individual animals,
habitat destroyed and populations displaced by the relentless onward march
of their sterile paved and sprayed subdivision environment.  The book itself
is IHO a classic bee book that stands head and shoulders above others of its
time for its straight ahead, unaffected writing, common sense instructions
and absence of the romantic BS that was standard in bee literature of the
time.

Please understand: I do not like the photo because I think hurting bees is a
good thing to do.  I like it because 1) I like unpretentiousness and honesty
and 2) because I think I understand the old guy (without meeting him), 3)
because I like and respect bees, and 4) because I understand the compromises
that take place in the world daily.  I understand that there is inescapable,
inexplicable, impersonal cruelty in daily life.  Both bees and men at times
do things -- with and without purpose -- that are not 'nice'  both to
members of their own species and to each other. I also like that photo
because it is in black and white, and obviously shot on the spur of a
moment.

To anyone who has ever worked bees, it is obvious that the old guy in the
photo in question had so many bees in the hive that, given the height, the
weights and his size, he simply could not properly super the hive without
squashing some bees.  He apparently got the supers on and posed proudly with
his immense hive of bees, but the story is abundantly clear to any observant
reader.  That is why it is a great photo.

> What suprises me is that some people can work with
> bees and note all the human emotions ( anger, contentment, excitement,
> etc.) and intelligence a hive appears to exhibit and yet are not
> anthropomorphic about the bees themselves.

IMO, anthropomorphism adds very little constructive content to the
discussion of how best to co-exist with bees.  Anthropomorphism only muddies
the water.  Bees are not people and conferring humanity on them would not
change the way we treat them.  It might even make us treat them worse since
some of us would feel obliged to hate some of them (at least) for their
religion (or lack thereof) or colour.

A good beekeeper tries to do things that are good for his or her bees.  Only
by taking good care of them can the beekeeper profit.  As for disposing of
bees when the season ends, an argument can be made that it is cruel to keep
bees over a Canadian winter and that euthanizing them is the kindest thing
to do.

In case I am again misunderstood, I am not claiming that or anything else,
but merely pointing out that it is not an unreasonable argument.  If kept
into winter, as many as 100% of wintering hives may die -- after their
members experience horrible conditions as hives dwindle due to conditions
beyond the beekeeper's control.  Can such (hypothetical?) suffering possibly
be justified?  Which of the unattractive fates is better, and which is
worse?

Should we then not keep bees in Canada at all?  Maybe not, maybe so.  After
all, it can be argued that providing bees that would not have otherwise
existed an opportunity to live even a short while makes the artificial
establishment of hives that are destined for elimination justifiable.  (This
argument is not as attractive, however when anthropomorphised and applied
personally).

Such debate is the stuff that keeps philosophers and theologians occupied,
but is normally a little outside our sphere on BEE-L.  It is not that we are
unaware of the eternal and unanswerable questions that attend every human
activity -- I believe that beekeepers are more sensitive and informed on
these questions than many -- but rather that we exist as an online community
by sticking to the things that there is a chance we can agree on, and
leaving the abstract questions to other fora.

> Commercial beekeepers by definition operate in a rural environment where
> people tend to mind their own business and do what they can to see their
> neighbours get ahead in life. Perhaps this does not allow individual
> operating practises to be a topic of discussion. However, as the number
> of people actually involved in food production dwindles, the general
> public's attitude towards the treatment of livestock in food production
> is changing.  I feel we should be thinking about this and consider how
> it might affect the beekeeping industry in the future.

That's true.  Being right or wrong has often not been the deciding factor,
though, in surviving.

I suppose that we could discuss how to 'manage' the information and
manipulate the mindless masses by adding a spin to what we are and do, but I
think (hope) most of us are too busy taking care of our bees.

allen