Bob said:
> The figure of 4% as the actual number of dead hives being CCD is very suspect. Where did Dennis V. come up with the number? Actual dead outs are counted.

My point is simple! Commercial beekeepers can point to the actual number of dead  hives from the winter of 12/13. No live bees! What I believe Jeff Pettis is basing his winter loss on.

I said:
> Documented by the CCD working group as CCD is nothing more than a wild guess.

Implying 4% of the above dead hives are CCD is a guess. My point is as I said before the dead hives is real. I speak with many beekeepers and all know the number of hives lost. CCD is a big gray area.

The most common described symptom is an empty hive full of honey & pollen and no bees. Not dead with heads in cells or on the bottom board. Bees fly out and do not come back. Very unusual but typical today!

Like I have said from the start trying to get the last decade of hive loss to fit under the *term* CCD and claiming the other 40-50% are PPB is getting old.

What is killing the hives?

PLB said:
>Dennis is interviewed at length in the recent ABJ. He states "while losses have continued around the 30% mark, few of those seem to be CCD as defined early on by our group."

First where did the 30% number come from? Does not fit this year. Losses were announced by the USDA long before the article was written.

Just saying as you seem to be wanting to discuss the article by Jerry Hayes.

OK.

The figure of 30% does not fit and the 4% figure is a guess nothing more. If you remove empty hives with missing bees might fit. Lets discuss what symptoms those with losses are seeing this winter. Not let some muddy the waters.

PLB said:
Then he says: "CCD has become the catch-all name for all honey bee deaths ... we need to really start paying attention to the different ways that colonies die. "

*I agree* but seriously an accurate count of what killed a million hives is impossible and
commercial beekeepers might let the boxes sit a few weeks but hives are worked and commercial beekeepers move on.

Not going to change.

The practices researchers blame beekeepers for are no different than years ago! Lets get real honest.
Hives are dying and researchers can not figure out.


bob

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