??>
>> >The first noenic temik was pulled from use on orange because of the
>> >amount
>> found in the oranges & orange juice.
>
>
> Bob, you are confusing the issue here!  Temik is a carbamate insecticide
> (aldicarb), NOT a neonic!  I implore you to do some very basic research
> before writing on this subject!

Randy is right and simply a TYPO! I even left out the word systemic!
My bad!

Temik was the first Bayer systemic
(purchased from Union Carbide).

I  believe you knew I knew the difference Randy before your post.

If you want to learn about Temik go back a few years and read my article in
ABJ.
"The Neonicitinoids"
"More questions than Answers"

Still as I stated the nasty product temik was pulled from orange because of 
orange and orange juice contamination and ground water concerns.

Water concerns has brought a label to not apply Imidacloprid within I 
believe two months of orange harvest and from memory within 300 feet of a 
ground well. I read the orange label a couple years ago and believe I am 
right or at least close to the restrictions.

Temik is banned in the U.K. but not in the U.S. Still used *illegally* on 
orange in Florida I have been told as still available on the market.

> This goes right to the heart of the neonic debate--which is actually more
> environmentally benign--a spray of organophospate such as you used, or
> targeted systemic treatment?

I always learned more by listening than I ever did by talking. The subject
of the discussion IS *chemicals IN our food*.

Not the environment!

I could do countless posts on why I see the neonics problems for bees ,
butterflies and the water supplies but will stick to the subject at hand.
>
The organophosphates are basically gone when surface sprayed after 77 days
and 31 days of rain (unusual amount of rain for our area but around 10-15
are normal).

All organophosphates and other sprays have strict guidelines as to days 
between application and harvest.
Few environmental issues when used according to label. The label on the 
Bayer tree neonicotinoid in the stores says you can use right up until 
harvest AND one treatment will protect the tree for a year.

Really! In the sand of Florida whatever is put on the ground disappears into 
the water supply. Repeated treatments are needed.

The neonics are in every fruit. I have one customer which buys and eats
around a bushel of apples every two weeks. Wow! What would his long term
expose to the neonics be?

> And why would one care?--all evidence is that systemic residues of neonics
> are totally harmless to humans due to their specific mode of action that
> has
> little effect in vertebrates.

These are new products with no long term research on health risks. A lab
created nicotine product.
Nicotine has been proven to cause health risks in humans even if only
chewed.

"Why would one care?????"

Science and studies by tobacco companies has been proven wrong long term so
many times. Their CEO's lied under oath and hid studies showing problems.
All the big ag companies have been caught covering up problems and studies.

Of course Bayer is the only company I know of which has its own FAN club.:
"The Coalition Against Bayer"

You are welcome to your opinion on the subject and what I think
means little but the winds of change are forming against people ingesting a
systemic pesticide (based on nicotine) in their food.

The Mother Earth News article did not highlight the nicotine issue so the
article could have been worse for those in the discussion which think the
worlds chemists are not capable of coming up with a pesticide which will do
the same job and not end up in our bodies.

bob

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