At 01:18 AM 2/8/98 +0200, Marian Pintilie wrote:
>> How can you explain the healthy honeybees that are reared in areas of the
>> world that have NO propolis at all
>It seem to me that you too did not got my point of view. I repeat,
>In average, the interior of a lived hive is cleaner than the usual
>enviroment which touch our food . I mean regarding microorganisms and
>toxic substances.
Hi Marian & Bee Friends,
This is just not true I understand what you are saying and I believe you
are confusing the magic of our Honey with the physical environment it is
produced in. We all can digest some wild claims made about honey itself but
when it comes to making claims about the bee boxes or hives themselves as
credible evidence for the hype of honey I get all plugged up.
The inside of a bee hive and all its wooden parts are in fact because of
the nature of wood and the bees themselves are not clean. I have no idea
why you would want people to believe that they are clean but if you have
access to a black light such as used to detect the urine trails of mice in
a food storage warehouse you will never again want to eat your lunch off
the inside of a bee hive. Add moisture to the inside of a old bee hive and
at 80degrees B. you will be able to rear some very interesting things that
can in time eat the wood bee hive itself up and if you were to eat them
maybe they would not eat you but they could make you very thin.
>I was not aware that are hives without propolis, (I saw that some hives
>are well glued and near are other with almost nothing, but thin layer
>is always there) . If those bees do not use propolis (Do not have
>ingredients or do not know to produce it) are healthy because maybe
>was not yet discocered by Columb to give them flu or use spells
>to cure the evil :)
To have propolis you must first have the trees and plants that produce them
and believe it or not there are
many places that are excellent for beekeeping that do not have them so the
bees do not gather propolis, none of the hives because there is none to
gather. I have personally kept bees in both types of areas and if I were
asked I would say the bees are no healthier in the areas of over abundant
propolis then they are in the areas that have little or none at all, but I
would add that they are easier to work both in the field and in the honey
extracting room when there is little or no propolis. We do no understand
all that is to be known about how the bees use propolis but for sure how
they use it and how man would use it in the trade are not necessarily the
same.
>>and the fact that bees will gather and
>> use paint off any old Out House to use in the same way as they do propolis,
>> and many other not so nice or clean things??
>If somewhere in this world are some bees located in a garbage field
>who chosed to lick the Cola cans instead of starving doesn't mean that
>the rest of the hives of the world are filthy.
True it is not a perfect world and bees do these things and even in some
wild pristine areas of the world honey bees can be found looking for salt
in wild animal dung heaps if they lack it from other sources. In fact much
of what attracts bees during periods of food shortage are of the highest
order of rank things as far as what we would look for in our own foods,
such as fermented grain dusts, dusting sulfur, and black tar off the road
or roofs heated by the sun, a substitute for propels. Lucky for us most of
these things are rare enough that they do not make their way into the
trade, but at times some do and if not discovered because no one is looking
it is luckier for us they do no harm when consumed in small amounts. The
other side of this coin is honey made from non floral sources such as
excreted from scale insects which believe it or not can return more to the
beekeeper then the best floral honey and has a ready market in many areas
and is called Forest Honey in some markets. Some is very tasty such as Fur
Honey from the Ceder forests that has a pine nut flavor, others taste like
used motor oil such as Oak honeydew which can be as red as blood, or Sugar
Cane that can be black as the soot in it. None of these are even good bee
food but the bees do collect and store them sometimes in large amounts.
When the best honey in the US sold for 15 cents per pound I shipped a load
of Oak Honey to Cuba for 7 3/4 cents per pound including the drums. It was
used to flavor tobacco or that's what I had to say and stencil on each
drum, but I suspect it was sold as sugar cane honey to those who could
remember what it was like..
>The idea of unclean hives started, from the statement that
>FGMO in contact with the filth will be the same as PGMO.
>I this statement is true , I mean if the hive is unclean, than
>bees walking in that unclean stuff and next in combs cells, will
>make the honey unclean, so unfit for human consumption.!!!
Man has bee eating honey, bees wax, and some of the filth of the hives for
as long as this OLd Drone has been alive and except for a very few infants
below the age of two years all seems to have worked out OK for us and the
same was true for the vast majority of the infants who were fed small
amounts of honey until a few years back when a over zealous public health
bureaucrat did a snow job on the public and took the bee industry through
the courts. We ended up paying for hand outs that pedo doctors give out
with their bills warning new Mom's not to feed honey to their babies. Lucky
for us babies never have been big consumers of honey or we all would be in
a world of hurt.. Today in the USA those same unexplained crib deaths that
make it hot for beekeepers is now said to be the action of murderous
parents that don't want kids which also is a lot of horse poky...
You are the first that I have read that would make this argument about the
hive itself being clean or not as having anything at all to do with the
honey produced from that hive. Some areas of the world still have
beekeepers who keep bees in hives made of clay sealed up with mud and the
dung of animals and they consume all the honey their bees produce with no
reported problems.
>Soooo, be careful with such statements, because if will get to the ears
>of those who decide what is "eatable" and what not will let you to
>sell the honey only if :
Well so be it, take my word for it HONEY is a natural food and like most
natural food it contains some things that are not normally considered in
themselves as good. Most beekeepers take care in settling and straining
their honey to remove some of the bigger things that naturally are found in
honey. Some of these things are naturally found in honey because of the
lack of care by the beekeepers and others are in the dust of our environment.
No matter what I say others will make of it what they want, but I am not
going to say something I know is not true just because of some danger
someone may not understand. It is true I don't always express myself in a
way that all can understand but as far as the good name of our Honey goes
there have been evil forces at work for years and some can be found on the
web, one you may want to read is:
http://www.pitt.edu/~hslst7/honey/honey.html
I won't post the others but will say they are just as bad in making false
and out of context statements to advance a narrow point of view of why you
should not eat your honey.
>- the honey is sterilised
>- the honey is washed with food grade soap, or
>- your bees use boots outside of comb and antiseptic socks on combs.
I can say without reservation that the honey producing industry, including
myself, has a long way to go as far as what we could do to produce a better
quality product. Lucky for us in most cases the no good bad rotten stealing
Honey Packers removes much of what we miss, in the honey packing process,
and in some cases adds a little something of his own, moisture to make up
the loss. God has been good to us to have given us Honey Packers as bad as
they are they do insulate us from the consumers, he gets the complaints
while we take the praise. In this world the honey packer and the consumer
are the one's who have the most to say what honey is all about as it must
be marketed in competition with other products that are far less expensive
and are really chemically pure if not natural.
Please take note I know that few here have had the experience of selling
bulk honey and all here may do an excellent job of selling all they produce
to their friends and neighbors, and even their town or county. And all
should be proud of what they do to produce the best most holism product in
the world, honey, but out here in the real world there are many if not most
honey producers who can not sell all their honey to their neighbors and
must sell to others who gather large quantizes of honey, clean it up and
blend it together, and market it to the bulk industrial users, or the
wholesale trade that retails it to the average consumer and they produce
the bulk of what honey is consumed in the USA a large market for domestic
and world honey.
>Jocking, or not , I can give more arguments that hive are cleaner than
>us humans.
I would think this is the right place to do that, but if you are just into
PR or promotion of honey your time would be better spent on the public
since few of us here do not believe that what we are doing is not right
without telling the consumer another story on the advantages of honey
produced in a wooden bee hive. It would be easier to say only real honey
comes in a one pound bass wood comb honey section box and at one time most
would go along with that but today it would be a hard sell.
>Can anybody convice me the opossite?
>A scientific approach will be much credible.
Well if we have to be careful of what we say, scientific or not, then I
give up and declare you the winner and wish you lots of luck convincing the
public that honey is better then other food products because it comes from
wooden bee hives, plastic bee hives, or even bee trees.
I personally think of honey as a natural sweetener that differs in taste
and composition according to the flowers in bloom when and the location and
the environment it was produced in.
ttul, the OLd Drone
... I said, but just to be a bee
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