At 08:43 AM 12/24/98 -0700, you wrote:
 
Hi Allen and Bee Friends..
 
>bit that was in stock and there will be no more until the end of January.
 
You know that's not that far away.<G>
 
>My question:  Has anyone used the yeast from Drier B?  Apparently it has a
>larger granule.  That might make it a little less dusty to handle, and I
>thought that it should break down into a slurry as soon as it is in the
>syrup anyhow.  But I don't know.  Any ideas?
 
The two grades I know of are Feed and Food grade. The feed grade is OK and
can be used but you will find waste as the bees can NOT consume chunks of
yeast or anything else and will dump it out the entrance, I don't remember
being able to brake it down and do remember the loss. Sounds like Drier B
to me?
 
>enough, with our patties being 50% sugar, we found they disappeared
>entirely even with pollen coming in.
 
The attractant so to speak is the sugar the more sugar the faster the diet
is consume of course the more sugar in the diet the less protein. I use HFC
as it make a pattie that can be rolled out and cut into equal portions for
feeding.
 
>Also, interestingly, Eric Mussen.. (says)
 
Nice guy but never owned more then a hive of bees if that many and I can
tell you from personal experience and that by starting with bulk bees and a
young queen if you have the right diet you need NO pollen, NO flight, but
it does help to have bees that are strong enough to create the heat
necessary to consume the diet and rear brood and a young queen that will
not need to be replaced before queens are available.
 
>http://entomology.ucdavis.edu/faculty/mussen/briefs/brief4.html
 
>" Pollen substitutes will not generate brood production the way that
>sources of incoming pollens will.
 
IMHO. This is not true and is not based on any research that I can think of
and is only hyper boil from someone who should know the difference.
 
>Bees do not find pollen substitutes particularly attractive. It must be
>placed directly in contact with the bees as close to the brood as
>possible.
 
It matter not what or how attractive the substitute is it must be placed in
the area of the hive that the bees would normally rear brood. Normally the
center of the cluster in a single or on top of the center of the cluster if
split by supers.
 
>If no pollen is being brought in, the
>substitute will be ignored and will spoil over time."
 
FALSE, the availability of pollen has nothing at all to do with a
substitute protein diet but it is true the bees will not use the pollen if
its not in the right place at the right time much like pollen and incoming
pollen is all important if your diet is no good.
 
Some beekeepers reverse the brood box so that the pollen stored in late
summer and fall is in the top so the bees will consume it in the late
winter or spring and rear brood. This works great with 3/4 depth brood
supers but does require extra labor and good timing.
 
It would be nice to have pollen in the hive or coming in but if that pollen
was not good in quality or quantity the bees would rear little if any brood
to the hatching stage which is what I assume most want. It requires a pound
or more of protein to rear a pound of hatching bees, so I have read so must
it be true.(Eckart about 1940) That amount of pollen in frames would
require beekeepers to take off and store pollen combs to feed a normal hive
to double its population off season, most won't do that so feeding protein
makes sense.
 
>This is interesting inasmuch as it indicates the opposite of what members
>have observed about the consumption of patties when pollen is coming in.
 
That's right, like I said some people with the Dr. in front of their name
have little seat time as real beekeepers and only can repeat what others
have told them and if they were told wrong then what they repeat will be
rong. What Dr. Mussen says was true in the old days, maybe 50 years ago,
when beekeepers thought soy flower was a good protein for bees and is maybe
as true today if that's all you have to feed but I know of no one in
California that is successfully feeding protein to bees that has or can
rear one bee to hatching using soy flower but for sure if you add enough
sugar it will consume it more then likely giving them a problem if they can
not fly for several months. I should say bees if they can fly and have
nothing else to do pick up soy flower, but they will also pick up sulfur,
even saw dust,  and no one has ever said that was good for them.
 
The big secret with any diet is rearing drones and NO one has ever reported
rearing drones on a soy flower based diet to the best of my knowledge. The
most discouraging aspects of rearing bees without natural food is the
importance of keeping that diet in the hive at all times as if they eat it
all and have no more they then will clean out all the unsealed brood before
you know it and its back to square one. Some call this a "brood gap".<G>
 
The other problem one must be aware of is the more you feed the more a hive
will need. Hives that start out on 1/4 to 1/2 pound per visit will if the
diet is any good require two or more pounds in six to eight weeks. Best to
know when the first pollen will be out and start several months ahead so
the natural food can take over from the diet.
 
I guess the only other problem is the answer to this question, why would a
beekeeper fed protein in the first place? If you want early swarms or early
queen failure it is a good way to get it. If you enjoy bees consuming
expensive expendables its a great way to spend money. But if you need early
bees to make packages or divides then feeding protein can pay and you would
have a early supply of queens to replace the ones that will burn out during
the feeding period.
 
IN my opinion the best plan is the one nature has provided and that I call
the "big sleep" the longer and more quit the better as bees consume very
little when really quite and can even under the poorest conditions make up
any lost population in a few months in the spring if they have a young
queen and good pasture. Beekeepers who figure out how to provide that will
in the end have the best results. Everything else requires a real sharp
pencil to recover the cost of materials and labor and more time then not
most have not been able to demonstrate any great advantage over what nature
provides.
 
I know what I say will not change any minds and I hope not discouraging
anyone from feeding as being a beekeeper I enjoyed watching my bees eat
sugar and proteins and rear brood and drones when kept confined by even our
mostly mild weather and I could sell the extra bees.
 
For a picture of a hive on DEC.15, 1977 started with NO brood, NO honey, NO
pollen, just a normal hive in October with normal number of bees and a good
queen when all the frames were replaced with empty brood combs and it was
fed all the sugar syrup it would consume and a protein diet of yeast
products,  NO flowers at all and very little flight time, go to
http://beenet.com/121577.jpg  This hive would eat the average beekeeper out
of house and home if he had very too many like it.<G>
 
This years heavy cold spell has taken a serious toll on citrus growers in
California, already farm workers are queuing up for help. An estimated $600
in fruit loss translates into lots of jobs lost. Too early to say what's
going on in the bees other then some areas have pasture out and many more
will in a few weeks. Cold weather like we are having 15-20 f. not only
helps the deciduous fruit growers trees go dormant bringing out a heavy
bloom in the spring but here in years past has seemed to me to help the
bees. But I am sure that any dinks in the yards are dead.
 
Chow, the OLd Drone
 
For the November USDA Honey Market Reports
 
* It ain't so good! But remember the #1 Honey Co-Op
 has only received $0.45 on this years crop.<G>
 
http://beenet.com/index1.htm