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From:
Normand Choinière <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Thu, 18 Sep 2003 10:19:22 -0400
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I am far from beeing Dr Rodriguez fan more than that I still have
discomforts with the FGMO approach.

1- Scientific basis is weak. This method has not been scientifically
demonstrated by independent searchers (as many other methods!).
2- There are so many vaiations in the method and this do not ad to its
credibility.
3. Rodriguez looks more than a guru than a scientific person and he is also
very reluctant to criticism... which makes him doubtfull.

I tried FGMO ant it seems to work... and I am not alone. I know also that
there are many successfull and unsuccessfull attempts. My opinion is still
to be established.

Now let's talk about thymol. Rodriguez is very well aware of the dangers of
thymol:..."
thymol in high doses is toxic to honey bees and may cause deaths of larvae
and queen". Some seem to think that he is unconscious. This is not the case.

On the other hand, it is not clear that he does or doesn't recommend the
usage of thymol all year around. One thing for sure is that his "receipe"
has much less thymol in it compared to commercial products. May be that
concentration would be acceptable year round. May be.

Many refer to USDA and governing bodies.  I am from Canada and what I can
see, what seems as clear to me is that USA and Canada ar far from being
ahead on beekeeping especially at the government level. Decisions on
approval of medications or chemicals as Oxalic acid takes years. We can't
rely on decisions taken that way and so unprogressive. All our bees will be
dead if we follow the government!!! So being a little more open minded is
needed. As a matter of fact, untill now, progress on non chemical products,
never came from North American governmental sources but from Europe (Swiss)
and from individuals like Rodriguez who do it on trial and error basis.

One other thing which is also sure is that Rodriguez, contrary to what
someone opposed to him said, doesn't suggest the addition of thymol to oil
but to cords only.

Some people in the list seems to me to be over reacting and seem to be
"allergic" to Dr Rodriguez. They don't seem to even read what he actually
writes on the subject.

I'vee asked elsewhere if someone ever had scientific data on oxalic acid
strips. No one was able to give me an answer on this. Nobody knows how it
works, nobody knows what is in the strips, in what proportion, nobody knows
if this has been tested by independent people. But I also never read any
criticism on that method. I don't mean that it is  not effective or wrong
or anything else. But we have to be honest and objective in our criticism.

By the way, I also never read anywhere why oxalic acid could not be used
all year around. Everyone is saying that it should never be used during the
honey flow. Why? There is not a single study on that. There are some on
formic acid and thymol but nothing on oxalic acid. It seems that we are
"extendig" those conclusions on oxalic acid... which should not be done.
There is a single study on the oxalic acid remains in the wax the spring
following a fall application. period and the result of that study is that
oxalic acid levels are normal. That is all what we have on this. Nothing on
continuous usage of oxalic acid whatever the method of application is concerned

So let's be carefull on our reactions.

I really think that we would all profit of a little more open mind. This is
how things will get improving.

Normand Choinière

Normand Choinière,
VE2QNC
Région de Mont-Tremblant,
St-Faustin-Lac Carré,
Québec, Canada.
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