Allen said:
> In private communications, I have been told that this effect is, indeed,
> unusual, and not common, but very distinct and real, and provable when it
> happens.

I spent a great deal of time in 2007 looking into this USDA-ARS claimed 
phenomenon and
those looking at CCD were split about fifty percent on the subject. Not one
was able to explain a method to test the hypothesis. However in Florida
frames from CCD deadouts were placed in the open to try and prove the
hypothesis and in this case were not bothered. Robbing was not happening in
Florida while the CCD deadouts were being gone through.

I know quite a bit about Florida beekeeping as I started beekeeping in
Florida and been involved in Florida beekeeping for
decades.

My  response to the primitive proof was simple.

I can leave my large door to my honey processing area wide open when bees
are not in a *robbing mood* and no bees. On other occasions you can't sit a
cup of honey out.

Starving bees will *rob* at all times. Well fed bees do little robbing. The
bees of Hackenberg were heavy with stores I was told.

Dave was worried about robbing so urged the USDA-ARS to act quickly *but* 
saw the deadouts were not being robbed. Dave was in a possible robbing 
situation and was concerned as he should be but *in my opinion* the fact 
robbing occurs is not as important a symptom as :

A strong hive with plenty of stores going from 40-60,000 bees to a few 
hundred in a short period of time.
This symptom is the standout in my opinion. El numero uno.

 In Texas we once in spring placed a huge number of deeps (full of honey & 
pollen) in a shed ( hardly bee proof )in an area thousands of *well fed * 
bees and no robbing or pest issues.

I agree that at other times such as after a rain during a honey flow and 
when stores are low the situation can be very different. What I am trying to 
say is robbing behavior fits no one set rule.

example:
In California holding yards in fall (which are similar to a Florida holding
yard in winter daytime temps) we had no robbing. We had deadouts ( yes a 
few) and
over a 100 (one year) in singles with no reduced entrances . No robbing. We
worried as the doubles were boiling with bees and the singles were weak and
their entrances were not reduced.

A beekeeper from Texas with around 10,000 colonies in California holding
yards (staying the same motel) said he was amazed that bees rarely rob in 
the setting. Most bees in
hives and yet little robbing.  He had rows of 10 barrels of syrup he was
feeding (which our bees visited that year and which he tried to get us to
chip in for) sitting within fifty feet of  the hives yet no robbing.

Maybe Randy will comment. I personally never hear of robbing being an issue
in fall
California holding yards *when* hives are heavy with feed. Only my
experience. Randy might have seen a different scenario.


I think whenever a researcher comes up with a never before seen with bees
hypothesis then expect some expectation of *proof* from all of beekeeping.
>

> I appreciate Bob's observations and comments, but I think we will have to
> wait for publication.  Time will tell.

Thanks Allen!
 Many times I am expressing the observations of commercial
beekeepers which are giants to me. One in particular is a recluse and does
not want to be quoted. I am not an accepter of the *new* without scrutiny.

I think last week on BEE-L the statement was made of a queen mating on the 
front of a hive. I had to laugh. What was observed in my opinion was a queen 
returning from a high in the air mating flight with the drone still attached 
( holding on for dear life?). This has been described before and told to me 
by my mentors.


Many choose to remain silent ( unlike Allen & myself) but *if* those at
Apimunda in Australia would comment on BEE-L about the presentation on CCD
presented they would say the rest of the worlds researchers were very very
skeptical of the USDA_ARS position that CCD was something totally new to the
beekeeping world.

bob

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