>So, how do you define ORGANIC.  Pristine or pure is unattainable.  Below detectable analysis limits - may be able to pass, but expensive.  Best available effort -- probably only criteria that can be applied.  Should we call is organic or raw or something else?  I don't know.  When it comes down to it, most "organic" vegetables suffer the same problems.  Soils contaminated from historical use, pollution, etc.  Is honey any more or less organic than veggies?


According to discussions I have had with people in NY state over certification, it appears that there are two types of standards. The first and in my opinion, reasonable, standard is one of practices. Organic farmers are required to follow certain practices and the product is *assumed* to be organic as a result.

The second is environmental. I don't know if any other crop but honey is subjected to this odd and stringent standard. It is assumed by the NY state group that honey bees working in an area where there is agriculture will pick up pesticides and pollute the honey with it. No testing is done to see if this, in fact, occurs. I tried to argue that my bees visit mostly wild or non-sprayed plants such as wild raspberries, locust trees, basswood trees, and goldenrod. They wouldn't listen to this at all. Honey is presumed guilty without a trial.

Some states do offer practice based recommendations for raising bees organically. They are strict , but the are feasible. One way to avoid all chemical treatments is to allow mite infested hives to die, burn AFB, and build in the cost of restocking the hives with package bees. Expensive, but feasible.

Now I agree with Jerry that there is no such thing as chemical free food any more; by today's methods you can find chemicals everywhere. But what are acceptable limits? The organic farming organizations don't want to go there because testing is very costly, and it is possible that other products would not pass, due to environmental contaminants from the air and water. Personally, I think it is a damn shame they have raised the bar so high no one can pass.


pb