Hello Allen and All,

> > I was shocked as I did not   know  any  capensis  (or capensis genes)
were  still around  from the   Dr. Kerr 1957 release.

Above is what I wrote Allen. Let us not nit pick. When Dr. Hoffman said
capensis she did not stutter. If those black workers have got large numbers
of ovarioles THEN somewhere in the dna  in my opinion is at least a couple
genes of capensis as CAPENSIS is the only race of bee known to posses those
qualities.

quote from page 39 of "The Hive and the Honey Bee" (1992 edition)

" THIS BEE (APIS MELLIFERA CAPENSIS) IS *DISTINCTLY DIFFERENT* FROM *ALL*
OTHER GEOGRAPHIC RACES OF HONEY BEES *BECAUSE* OF THE LARGE NUMBERS OF
OVARIOLES IN THE OVARIES OF WORKER BEES AND WELL DEVELOPED SPERMATHECA"

If the difference is *distinctly different* then why the diagnosis problem.

I called a high school biology teacher and she said  if she had a normal bee
for a sample  a high school student could tell the difference in normal and
large numbers of ovarioles with the electron microscope. Maybe Dr. Hoffman
based her  capensis findings on  similar observations.
.
Dee raises and open mates her own queens in an area full of feral AHB
swarms.

In my opinion it is your point of view which needs reinforcement in this
discussion.

 I raise valid  points regardless of what Dr. Hoffman said. Capensis and
scuts cross. Africanized bees are in the area of Dees hives and any of those
swarms could easily possess  capensis genes.  BROUGHT OUT THROUGH DEES
BREEDING SELECTION.

I was told by Barry Seargeant of South Africa (on Bee_L and has written many
papers on SA bees ) that capensis in its form in SA is easily told apart
from scuts. Maybe we need to send some samples from Arizona for ID.

Yes Allen I am saying that if those bees in Arizona are looking capensis,
acting capensis , black in color (scuts are yellow *normally*) and posses
ovarioles  in larger number than a scut there has got to be a couple
capensis genes tucked away in those bees in my opinion.

Sincerely,
Bob Harrison