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From:
Adrian Wenner <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Sun, 4 Jul 1999 15:35:18 -0700
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   On 29 June, Doug Yanega responded to some comments provided by Julian
O'Dea, with regard to whether bee "language" exists.  However, statements
made by Dr. Yanega do not mesh with much that one can find in published
accounts.

   Patrick Wells and I covered the problems raised by Dr.Yanega quite
extensively in our 1990 book: Wenner, A.M. and P.H. Wells.  Anatomy of a
Controversy:  The Question of a "Language" Among Bees.  Columbia University
Press.

   In that connection, consider some of the comments by Dr. Yanega (not in
his sequence):

1)  Yanega:  "It's already been shown that bees can be recruited by dances
with no odors, albeit with reduced effectiveness."

   My response:  Von Frisch wrote:  "In performing this experiment I
succeeded with all kinds of flowers with the exception of flowers without
any scent..."  (Wenner, A.M. [with K. von Frisch]. The language of bees.
BEE WORLD. 74:90-98.)

   In our extensive experimentation in the late 1960s and early 1970s, we
found that a total elimination of odors from experiments resulted in
absolutely no recruitment.  Odor artifacts, though, can confound the issue.
Even something so seemingly mundane as the odor of paper interfered with
experimental results.  We summarized that problem in Chapter 5 and 8, as
well as on pages 320-330 (Excursus OS: Odor Search by Flying Insects) of
our 1990 book.

   One can also read the following more recent publications:

1998  Wenner, A.M.  Odors, wind and colony foraging - Part I of three
parts: The need for odor.  American Bee Journal.  138:746-748. (Oct.
issue).
1998  Wenner, A.M.  Odors, wind and colony foraging - Part II of three
parts: The role of wind direction.  American Bee Journal.  138:807-810
(Nov. issue).
1998  Wenner, A.M.  Odors, wind and colony foraging - Part III of three
parts: Insights from beehunting.  American Bee Journal.  138:897-899 (Dec.
issue).

2)  Yanega:  "Occam's razor is not just 'the simplest hypothesis', but 'the
simplest hypothesis *consistent with all the evidence*'"

   My reponse:  We also covered this topic on pages 246-250 in our 1990
book (cited above).  I commend Dr. Yanega for his insistence that we
consider "all the evidence."  In the meantime, though, bee language
proponents have concentrated on supportive evidence for their favored
hypothesis to the virtual exclusion of evidence not in agreement with that
hypothesis.

   For more on that point, one can consult the following 1998 reference:
Wenner, A.M.  Honey bee "dance language" controversy.  Pages 823-836 in
Greenberg, C. and M. Hara, (eds.), Comparative Psychology:  A Handbook .
Garland Publishing, New York.

3)   Yanega:  " ...it's up to you [O'Dea] to prove that bees can recruit
just as well without dancing."

   My response:  I'm sorry, but reponsibility rests with the person who
presses an exotic hypothesis, not with one who doubts that hypothesis
(witness the "cold fusion" episode).

   As I recall, some Russian researchers published papers back in the 1950s
that contained results from experiments where they had recruited bees to
crops by using odor alone.

4)  Yanega:  "Another obvious problem with [the O'Dea] theory is that it is
a phenomenal waste of energy if it does not aid in communication."

   My response:  We covered this topic quite fully on pages 362-366 of our
1990 book (Excursus TEL: Teleology).  Teleological and anthropomorphic
assumptions actually hinder progress in science.

   We provided some examples of "waste" in Nature in that excursus.
Consider another example --- oak reproduction.  An oak tree can live for
hundreds of years and produce untold thousands of acorns during that time.
Yet, ON AVERAGE, only ONE of its acorns will germinate and live until it
produces acorns.

   I thank Dr. Yanega for providing the opportunity for clarification of
this complex matter and will mail him some relevant materials.

   In the meantime we still await Occam's razor to fall and bring closure
to this controversy.  And we still have no scientifically concise statement
of the language hypothesis that accomodates all known facts, one that can
be tested experimentally.  Instead, all earlier expressions of that
hypothesis no longer suffice.

                                                        Adrian

Adrian M. Wenner                    (805) 963-8508 (home phone)
967 Garcia Road                     (805) 893-8062  (UCSB FAX)
Santa Barbara, CA  93106

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*
*     You cannot hold on to the past; when you're holding on to the past,
you're
*  protecting yourself and stealing from future generations."
*
*                                               NASA Chief, Dan Goldin
*                                               LOS ANGELES TIMES - 1 July 1999
*
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