"P-O Gustafsson" wrote:
> Sorry for the late reply Peter, I'm spending winter in Thailand.

I hope that you do not expect any of us to feel sorry for you!

> I'm on a commercial level and it makes things a little harder.

 Commercial level in Thailand?  We need to know more - but even then I
suspect that few will feel sorry for you.  Envy - yes!

I am still struggling with your postings!  I have spent years perfecting my
set honey (50% of my sales) and have won many prizes for it - but I just
cannot see how your method could produce a fine-grained  (like butter, with
no discernable crystals), soft-set product.

> I have tanks of 3 tons...Stirring several tons of honey at low temp will
> need considerable power. At least a 10 HP motor.

Surely it is only in proportion?  I stir approx 180lbs at a time with just
an 80 watts motor (I have had a look at the rating plate since my last
post), so presumably 3 tons (I am working on proper English tons) would need
just under 3kw, i.e. just over 5hp.  (3*2240/180)* 80W.

>>However, my main problem is with the production of the 'living starter'.
>>This is produced from starter that 'need not be fine grain'.  So how do
you
>>get from coarse crystals to a final fine grain product?  Seeding honey
with
>>a coarse-grained starter will produce a very coarse-grained end product.

> It will not if you keep it at 10 degrees C all the time. The small
> amount of coarse crystals used to start the process will not affect the
> final result. They will be broken down to smaller units during stirring.
> 10 C is chosen because it is difficult to stir honey at a lower temp
> with a low water content honey. Yes you get the fastest crystallization
> at 14 C, but not the finest crystal structure. That is achieved at lower
> temp where it's impossible to stir it. You can leave honey in the
> freezer and will get a very fine structure, however, you will have to
> keep it there for years....

This does not agree with anything that I have read.  Presumably it requires
a great deal of stirring to break down coarse crystals?  When I have used
coarse starter, no amount of stirring seemed to make any difference.  As far
as I am aware, all commercial packers grind their starter to produce fine
crystals.  Regarding the temperature, all the literature suggests that the
faster the granulation, the finer the crystals - so 57F is the optimum - but
you are claiming that a lower temperature, giving a slower crytallisation,
will produce finer crystals.  I would also ask what is the cost of
refrigerating to 10C?  (In Thailand???)  You also state that freezing honey
will produce a fine grain, although it will take years; again, this does not
agree with anything that I have read or observed, i.e. that freezing honey
will stop ALL crystallisation.

> But you don't need to make the starter with any crystallized honey.
> Liquid honey will crystallize most of the time anyway in 10 C

It might, but often with a very coarse crystal structure in my experience
(unless it is mainly from oilseed rape).

> Once you have the starter, save a little
> for next batch every time.

Again, everything that I have read and experienced tells me that if you keep
honey from one batch to seed the next, then the crystal size will gradually
increase.

Does anyone else have a view?

Peter Edwards
[log in to unmask]
www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/

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