Dee Lusby writes:
>  Peter, I am talking retrogressive breeding here for areas
>  of complex mongrelization where several races/strains of
>  bees are determined to be. It should be a multi-step
>  process beginning with separation of yellow races/strains
>  from dark races/strains, followed by seperation of colour
>  by caste size to be followed by separation of remaining
>  bees by physical characteristics other than size. It is not
>  an overnight process.


With all due, respect, have you read any books on bee breeding or
talked with anyone involved in breeding? You still haven't defined
your terminology. What do you mean by these words? It is hard enough
to communicate using the *same* words, let alone a unique jargon no
one understands. Just because you can confuse us, doesn't mean you
are on to something.

In conventional bee breeding there are several types of bees. Pure
races, generally considered rare, are geographically isolated. A true
hybrid would be obtained by crossing two such races, such as Brother
Adam attempted throughout his career.

A line bred bee is one in which certain characteristics, such as
color, have been selected. In the Starline program, very narrow lines
were developed by *inbreeding* and then crossed to produce *hybrids*
after the model used for hybrid corn. This is a very complicated,
labor intensive plan.

What you call a "complex mongrel" is just the regular bee that
everybody uses. It is a mix of the various races that have been used:
Italian, Carniolan, etc. This sort is marketed as the "All-American"
by Weavers of Texas. One thing about it, it is vigorous and not
in-bred. It is not a true hybrid.

When you say *retrogressive breeding" I take it to mean that you are
trying to revert to some "previous type". This was studied heavily by
Ruttner in connection with trying to restore the original European
black bee (Apis mellifera mellifera) which had been heavily crossed
with Carniolans.

But with this program, there was a particular goal in mind, a
particular type. What is the particular type you are after?  How will
you know if you have it? I would expect feral bees of Arizona to be a
mix of African and American stock. From this, you are trying to
separate out some particular type, using open mating?

 From what you have stated in the past, you apparently believe that
there was some type of bee in Arizona before the arrival of the white
man, and that you can somehow, through the miracle of bee breeding,
restore it to its rightful place in the Southwest. How will you know
if you have it? Has anyone ever seen this bee? What would it be like?

These are not difficult questions, but ones you have neglected to
answer. It appears to me that you are doing what everyone else is
doing, trying to breed a particular bee that suits you. This is
perfectly reasonable, but in an area saturated by African bees, I
don't see how you will end up with anything but an African cross of
some sort.




--

Peter Borst <[log in to unmask]>