In a message dated 5/15/00 3:22:05 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:

> "David L. Green" wrote
>
>  > And probably four nucs are not even going to be equivalent to one full
>  > strength colony, at least with the bees we are used to in the US.
>
>  Are you letting the grower decide about what he is getting / not getting?
>  Or are you making the decision for him?

   Bob, please go back and read my original post!   I simply reported that
I've been told that the pickle cucumber industry in south Mexico is hiring
AHB's for their pollination needs and the beekeepers seem to have
standardized on what we would call nucs for their pollination management of
this bee.

    This is all based on a hearsay report, and has nothing to do with my own
management, except that I was speculating, based on my experiences here in
South Carolina with gentle and fierce bees.

>  > But, if the field workers are getting stung, you are not going to get
much
>  > pollination
>
>  As far as I am concerned - and this has been corroborated often - stinging
>  episodes with AHB's, also in Africa, are more often than not triggered by
>  interference in the hives. Are your pickers trying to interfere with the
>  pollination work done by the bees, by stealing honey and/or brood?
>  So,? They get stung ...?!

Agreed!  Whether by a Mexican field worker stealing honey at night, or by
skunk predatation, bears, or some kids on minibikes. Not all interference is
manageable.
>
>  Disturbed bees are not going to do the pollination work they should be
>  doing. Are you letting the grower know this? Are you setting his staff down
>  and explaining this to them? We have learnt to do this and vandalism is
>  down to a minimum. We also make the grower pay for vandalised hives
>  over and above his pollination costs.

   So do we, if the grower is negligent.  But these things are not done
openly. What are you gonna do? Line up the workers and shoot one at a time,
till they 'fess up?

>
>  On the other hand we explain to them that improved pollination means
>  more money for the grower, because of better product, which in turn
>  is more money in their packet at the end of the day and sustainable
>  agriculture follows. Mark Winston has a lovely article on the yuppie
>  pollinator: "More pollination income for everyone" in Bee Culture
>  of April 1994.
>
>  > They will throw gasoline on them and touch them off.
>
>  Who pays? And why do this to another man's property? Because
>  of jealousy of the fact that the grower and the beekeeper are
>  progressive and successful? Is it our of hunger?
>
>  >  The pickers will tolerate a sting now and then, but they will not
>  > tolerate really nasty hives.
>
>  Not for them to say! The grower pays both the pickers and the
>  pollination service provider. Only by good preparation can this
>  problem be solved. Bees out of sight of the fields perhaps?
>  They fly you know.
>
>  > The downside of keeping gentle bees on pollination is that the pickers
> like to
>  > steal frames of honey (or even whole supers).
>
>  Point made!
>
>  > This can lead to starving bees on vine crops where they won't make
> additional
>  > honey.
>
>  And NO pollination happens.
>
>  SO, with BIG ahb colonies, your grower gets better pollination,
>  because the pickers should not disturb them ... once they have
>  been told the cost to THEMSELVES of improper pollination ...
>  and of funerals.
>  QED.
>
>  Once again, I am aware of the fact that perhaps not all the factors that
>  play a role here are open to me. I may be out of line in this simplistic
>  evaluation of the question. We make a living out of providing a pollination
>  service that strives for excellence and these issues are dear to us.

    I agree with you quite a bit of what you say. We take pride in providing
a quality service and we work diligently to prevent such problems.  My
growers will usually come down hard on vandals and thieves if they are aware
of it.  Sometimes you "know" who did it, but can't prove it....

    However, we have learned in years of providing pollination that Murphy's
Law still operates, and unanticipated problems will crop up now and then. I
have a feeling that it also operates in South Africa, as well.   I have
learned "fer sure" that using the gentlest bees I can, will lead to fewer
problems.

Dave Green
The Pollination Home Page:   http://pollinator.com