Hi Bob and Everyone,

>For how long ( years)? Would you consider placing a frame of drone brood in
>one small cell hive for the entire season and reporting back? Feel free to
>remove the drone brood if you see the small cell bees can not handle the
>extra varroa load as no since in killing the hive.

I've had bees on small cell for 4 years.

I wouldn't mind putting a drone comb in a small cell hive and leaving it
there. But I have an equivalent test underway in my top bar hives. These
hives have about 40% small cell comb overall and have lots of large
cell/drone comb.

The Lusbys and their promotion of small cell beekeeping showed me how
important comb is to colony health. My top bar hives have extended that
perspective by showing me how broodnest structure relates to colony function
and why small cell comb works. So I no longer focus much on small cell
beekeeping. There's just too much stuff entangled with an erroneous premise.
For details see:

http://wind.prohosting.com/tbhguy/bee/musin.htm

>What type of varroa load do you see in late fall before brood rearing shuts
>down in natural fall or eyther roll?

My small cell hives have consistently dropped about 1 to 2 mites/week.

>By what numbers when tested as above around the same time? (mite increase
>in large cell hives)

I split 4 colonies of bees from small cell hives into hives with 5.4mm comb.
  By the end of the season one of these hives was showing DWV and MWV. I saw
plenty of mites in the other large cell hives. I didn't get a mite count
from them as my interest was in seasonal bee size. And the mite buildup
merely confirmed my experience with mites before using small cell.

At the same time, my small cell hives continued to preform as in previous
seasons.

>If you are seeing DWV or MWV I would say these hives are approaching
>threshold and the bees you are using have not got any varroa tolerance at
>all and should be removed from your program.

That's the interesting part. The same bees, in the same yard, showed
completely opposite responce to varroa depending upon cell size. And that's
not news as I have tried a variety of commercial selections on small cell
with equally good results.

And I think this is great news as beekeepers can take the best bee they have
and get great results without having to start the selection process from
scratch. No need to loose all those characteristics by passing the selection
process through the mite tolerant genetic bottleneck.

>These are not bees you received from Dee you have put on large cell are
>they? I imagine you are also seeing varroa on bees in the above hive.

I monitored my Lusbees for a season and didn't find any significant
difference in mite tolerance between them and the other commercial
selections on small cell comb. Other selections had characteristics I
preferred over the Lusbees. So I replaced them. The large cell bees were an
assorted lot of Russian, SMR, NWC and Weaver stock.

>You describe most commercial production queens. Two years without treatment
>is about the maximum. We have actually seen commercial production queens
>(sold in U.S.) bought in spring and started in nucs so varroa infested by
>fall they could not be saved by treatment of any kind. Very few queen
>breeders are selecting for varroa tolerance. If they were I would not be
>having to take part in the search for a varroa tolerant bee.

I have tried the following stock on a limited basis on small cell, Strachan
NWC and Russian; Miska Italian and Carniolan; Weaver Buckfast,All American,
 Russian and Harbo(SMR); Bolling Caucasion, Glenn Russian, Carniolan,
Minnesota Hygienic Italian and SMR; Lusbees Black and Yellow; USDA Russia; a
York queen or two; my own mutts; and a couple of queens of Ohio Queen
Breeders stock from California. Did I forget anybody? :>)

>Interesting but does not follow what we know about hygienic behavior. Have
>you ever tested your bees for hygienic behavior by freezing a section of
>comb (to kill brood) and seeing the amount of time needed to remove the
>dead brood (24 or 48 hours)?

Before my small cell experience, I focused on selecting bees by single
traits like hygienic behavior. I used the pin prick method rather than
freezing them. Yet, none of my 'hygienic' hives demonstrated the slightest
mite tolerance. I searched for damaged mites using a hand lens and think I
might have seen a couple at best. :>)

I believe this broodnest cleasning behavior, seen when bees are placed on
small cell comb, is a seasonal activity and is not directly related to
hygienic behavior. All my bees have demonstated it when on small cell. None
have demonstrated when on large cell. And a hand lens isn't needed to locate
 damaged mites. They are essentially all damaged and the damage can be seen
with the bare eye at 3 feet.

Selecting for hygienic behavior is no longer a criteria for me.

Regards
Dennis

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