Jerry said:
> My understanding of the drench method was that bees would get a coating -
> I'd limit that to a spray or mist, or I've heard of dribbling it into the
> colony  - but the point of the drench was that the bees have no choice
> regards
> taking  the medicine, they HAVE to clean it off themselves.

The above is basically the drench method as proposed by the maker of
fumigillin . I have used the drench many times and have followed the
directions of Dr. Eric Mussen most of the time. The drench has worked in
about 50% of cases to slowly (very slowly ) turn a percentage of the  hives
off feed around. I still do not understand exactly why the bee can take the
feed by licking off each other but can't take syrup out of a feeder by
licking.

My friend Randy Oliver suggested I try to save hives with high nosema
ceranae problems so I did experiments.  A very human idea but is not an idea
I embrace today but many ways to keep bees.

Each hive unit is an investment in time and money. A recovering hive is
dwelling in a spot on a skid a productive hive should be.

In a commercial setting once the bees go off feed my current policy is to
depopulate the hive (as the bees are most often  carrying high spore loads.
Maybe as high as 5 million spores and dr. Mussen recommends treatment with
samples of 1 million spores) and shaking out those bees to drift into other
colonies is a problem *in my opinion*. I then bring all the equipment in to
kill the nosema ceranae spores before placing new bees on the comb. My 
method
is based on several years of experimentation with nosema ceranae.

Using the above method I have eliminated nosema ceranae issues from my bees.
I have no need to drench now and only feed fumidil in syrup when I feel the
need when random checks show spore counts rising.

From the notes on nosema ceranae from the presentation given by Dr. Mussen
at the Missouri State beekeepers meeting:

N. Ceranae life cycle:

Spores swallowed by bees
Go to the bee midgut
reproduces vegetatively
cells form spores
Host cells infest midgut in 4-7 days, bees die in about 2 cycles (1-2 weeks)
which is about half the time of nosema apis.

effects on individual bees:

inhibits ability of midgut digestion

REDUCES LIFE EXPECTANCY OF ADULT WORKERS 22-44%
WORKERS "AGE"

The above was taken directly from the slides of the power point presentation
of Dr. Eric Mussen.

As a honey producer losing my forager bees last two weeks of foraging is a
big deal. The same was true of nosema apis but its hard to really compare
nosema apis to nosema ceranae as very different in the way nosema ceranae
causes problems for bees. In fact nosema cerane is similar to nosema vespula
(wasp nosema ) than nosema apis.

The amount of influence nosema ceranae  had on CCD is often discussed but
still nosema ceranae was found in all the CCD deadouts. Little discussion on
BEE-L about KBV which was also found in all the CCD samples. KBV by itself
is a known killer of bees. Was reported by the Canadians as the sole cause
of thousands of dead hives in the Peace River area of Canada a few years
ago.

IAPV is said to kill hives by itself in studies in Israel and was first
blamed as the single cause for CCD but was not found in all the CCd samples
as was nosema ceranae and KBV.

As the CCD discussion drifts from area to area we must stick with the known
facts.

Also from the Dr. Mussen CCD discussion slides:
( remember I am only giving information from the presentation)

1975 same pattern of loss was seen, called disappearing disease

CCD is a resultant state of a colony.

symptoms;

1. Most of the adult bees have flown away.

2.Queen and few young workers remain,

3.Some.too large amounts of brood may be left to die

4.Honey & pollen stores often abundant

5. abandoned comb seem not attractive to normal hive pests.

The above is the way Dr. Mussen explained the CCD symptoms. he listed what
we are discussing last in his list of symptoms.

To sum up if you control mites and nosema ceranae  in your bees then you
will in my opinion see no parasitic mite syndrome (PMS) and you will *in my 
opinion* see
plenty of old forager bees in your hives. I do!

bob

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