On Thu, 25 Jun 1998, Stan Sandler wrote:
 
> Hi Allen and All:
>
> My experiences with Pierco and Permadent are a little different.  I agree
> with all the comments about handling and ease of use.  I used 2000 Pierco
> last year and another 2000 this spring.  I used the same amount of permadent
> this spring.  My Pierco were white.
>
> >Sometimes there would be  an area that was drawn out for drones or brace
> >comb, but it was easily scraped off and the bees would correct it the next
> >trip onto a hive.
 
 Hello All,
  I have 2,000 + frames of permadent and about 500 frames of rite cell and
about 70 frames of pierco.
 My observation is as follows:
 Any plastic foundation needs a good flow and seeded.You will get
different results depending on temperature and streingth of flow.I have
some pierco frames that turned out great on strong hives with a great
flow. I have some with a lot of brace comb from weaker hives. Permadent-
Rite cell did just a little better in the same hives. Placement and
spacing are important factors. In a heavy flow the girls go on auto pilot
and would draw out cardboard if it was given to them.In weak flows
permadent did a little better , but need a strong hive.I have been using
plastic foundation for over 10 years now and will never go back to wax.
 This year I have some great queens. I have pierco frames that are wall to
wall brood. What a site.One frame had 6 empty cells on one side and the
rest full.The economics is wonderful. Pierco will have more cells per
frame.The problem is getting the frames in at the right time to be drawn
out right.If the bees start brace comb and you can't check them all the
time, you can be in real trouble with labor. You can clean it off and
start over ,thats a great plus.If you have brood in there , do you want to
waist the bees.
 I will try some of the black frames from pierco that Allen has and see if
they work better.Beekeeping has many variables to deal with, so works one
place may not work another.Here in western Washington US it has been a
very slow and wet spring. We are about 2 weeks behind in one way , honey
yeild. My bees are packed in tight with 3 supers on them right now. Very
little honey completely capped.They have been slow to draw out new
foundation.If we get some heat all heck will break loose.
 Allen made a comment about supering. Put plenty on , for you do not know
what you are loosing. Real beekeepers know that from expierence. One week
of hot weather can fill up all of your supers , with either type of
foundation.If you had another box on, it could have been filled also.With
either type of foundation on, they would do a great job.
 Best Regards
 Roy