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Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology

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From:
Allen Dick <[log in to unmask]>
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Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Sun, 7 Feb 2010 09:08:28 -0500
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Some of us get bored waiting for approvals here on BEE-L, so the discussions tend to spill over to other forums.  In the interests of keeping BEE-L in the lloop,  here are several posts that address and augment some of the protein supplement discussions here.  
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The mention below of non-nutrient and anti-nutrient content of some feeds is of special interest since so much discussion tends to emphasize the positve -- protein content -- compared to potential negatives -- non-protein components.
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* The Diamond V yeast motioned will IMO not be a good yeast for bees no matter what you do. It has a very low protein level and consequently can be assumed to have -- in all likelihood -- a high level of non-nutrients or anti-nutrients. Best to buy the yeast from a beekeeper or bee supply, not an animal feed store. Farm animals and chickens have entirely different needs from insects.

* Suitable yeasts have typical protein levels well over 40%. Make sure the supplies are fresh. Do not use flours more than a few months old.

* The reason for seeking high protein levels in yeasts and flours is that protein is the major ingredient required and a high protein level means less of all the other things we do not need, and which can depending on amount, be harmful or just useless filer like fibre, ash, esters, non-digestible sugars, starches, etc.

* Protein level in the finished product is not as meaningful if we use high protein ingredients, since the dilutants are ones we add and know to bee nutrients like sucrose or glucose/fructose and water.

* Oils, including essential ones can be toxic when fed in more than low amounts. One important oil popularly used has been shown to be toxic when present in amounts over 2%. Oils also become rancid quickly and become toxic if the supplement is not used immediately.

* The idea that 20% protein levels in supplements are better than lower levels comes from pollen studies where lower protein pollens were found to be much less effective bee food than higher protein pollens. This stands to reason in pollens, since the lower the protein percentage, the more non-protein (and probably non-nutrient or anti-nutrient) components need be consumed to get the required absolute amount of protein. These non-protein components may, worst case, be toxic and best case, a filler.

* In supplements, the non-protein ingredients (beyond whatever rides along in the yeasts or flours) is sugar or water and we know these are nutrients which bees will be consuming anyhow, not junk in the diet.

* Therefore, in supplements, the percentage of protein in the final mix is more an indication of value for money than anything else. Example: A 20% mix at $ 2.00 per pound should compare to a 15% mix at $1.50 per pound in efficacy, assuming that each has the same profile of non-protein ingredients and the water and sugar levels account for the difference. Keep in mind though that sugar is not free, so maybe the 15% mix should be valued up at $1.75, say.

* In Florida, I spent time recently with several beekeepers and a bee nutrition expert of note. Interestingly, they are using a high sugar patty to encourage fast consumption due to hive beetle. The mix is 80% sugar and 20% yeast, plus whatever water is needed. They are quite happy with this.

* I also spoke to Hack last summer at EAS and he sent me his formula with permission to post it. For those not on BEE-L, here it is. This is not a recommendation. 

Hack's Protein Patty Recipe

1. 125 lbs. Sugar (Add water and keep wet. 
Should be a little thicker than pancake batter.)
2. Add either 3 cups citric acid or 4 quarts of lemon
juice, (this is to put the ph at 4 ½ to 5)
3. Add 1 cup Honey Bee Healthy (optional , but we prefer)
4. Add ½ bag Vitamins & Electrolytes (we use Russell’s)
(2 oz. worth) 
5. Add 10 lbs. pollen (optional)
(keep the mix wet)
6. Mix in 25 lbs. of Inedible Dries eggs
7. Add 3 ½ cups Canola Oil 
8. Mix in 24 lbs. (2 gallons) Honey
9. Finish by adding 50 lbs. Brewtech Brewers Yeast and water until it has the consistency you desire. 

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I trust that you don't use secret ingredients, then, but publish your contents? Or do you just provide an analysis?

Having had some analyses done, I have to wonder if they are much more than a marketing tool. We get the numbers for nutrients we ask for, but what the numbers really mean is a good question, since what we do not get is probably much more meaningful. For example, the protein numbers don't tell us how they break down and bioavailaility, and carb numbers don't give detail unless we ask. Of course the more items and detail in an analysis, the more it costs.

Other than worries about potential honey contaminants, I suppose the proof is in the pudding, ie. how the bees do in the short run, and long run. Comparisons are helpful, buty very difficult to do.

As for adding drugs, I think if you are custom mixing, ie. making supplement for one specific customer to that customer's specs, as a contract, you are in the clear. However, it is something to think about and to be careful about because if your product is deemed to be medication or a pesticide, the rules change, as do the authorities which take an interest.

For one thing, adding medication means that the batch must be labeled and segregated and must be consumed within specified times before honey production. Personally, I feed patties right through the honey season. I wonder if I need to rethink that? (I use Global patties, though, with known, simple food ingredients and not a secret formula).

Using unnamed and non-food components, salts,or essential oil-type ingredients can have unintended consequences due to potential contamination of honey. Some time back, I heard talk of a situation where a beekeeper or beekeepers were thought by a packer to have been using a prohibited repellant due to traces in the honey of compounds from the breakdown of some supplement ingredients. (One of the larges, best-known proprietary feeds was involved. It has since changed). 

I don't know how it was resolved, and I don't think the honey was condemned, but we are now entering times where increased scrutiny of foods is routine and unthinkably tiny amounts of contaminants can be detected. Even if detection does not result in condemnation of honey, it reduces the potential market and price.

Some beekeepers have tended to be very cavalier about what they put into beehives, but the days of flying uder the radar may be over soon. 
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> Yes, the pudding. Comparisons... are easy to do, ie, if your really trying to deliver the best sub. 

Not sure what you are saying here.  If you are saying comparisons are easy, I suppose you are right.

I'll agree that it is usually not too hard to prove what people want to believe, especially to an uncritical audience.

What I was trying to say was that honest, valid comparisons are very difficult unless there are huge and obvious and repeatable differences, and no outside influences, which usually there are not.   

I have observed scientific comparisons of feed formualas and seen how many confounding factors can skew the results.  I have run a few studies myself and found every time that many unexpected things can intervene, potentially influencing the results.

Some of us have considered how best to do independant tests to compare the many products on the market and concluded that getting fresh, typical samples and applying them to comparable hives under a variety of conditions is no small task.

Most subs work now, even some which were pretty poor in the past.  The questions now are 

* which ones give best value for the money and 

* which ones are safe to use in honey producing hives

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