>This means that if there is a good chance on a stable host-parasite couple 
>(tolerant bees, less virulent mites/virusses...I put my money on the last 
>one first) it will be in an isolated area that has a relatively low density 
>of colonies. Places like islands with primitive beekeepers or like Arnold 
>forest.

Varroa increase is simple math and has been since the start. When the bees 
raise vast amounts of brood the bees raise varroa mites. I have purchased 
hundreds of so called varroa tolerant queens.

Varroa tolerant has always been queens which shut down brood rearing at 
times for various reasons and most are hygienic which reduces varroa 
population ( and bee population).

The "Live and Let die ' method failed to produce a line of varroa tolerant 
bees by Harbo & Harris (Baton Rouge Bee Lab) so the lab observed what they 
named as SMR. We purchased SMR breeder queens and what a waste! Half the 
brood cells were empty!

 Later it was learned SMR was simply hygienic behavior.

My point is a bee as hygienic as those will not work in a commercial 
operation  because of all the pulling of brood the hive never becomes 
strong.( but the bees are varroa tolerant!)

The only true test of varroa tolerance *in my opinion* is by adding varroa 
pressure. Our experience has been one in fifty hives can handle added varroa 
pressure ( raising varroa loads in hives by artificial means) and when we 
tried to raise from those queens the offspring rarely displayed serious 
varroa tolerance.

 I encourage hobby beekeepers and researchers to keep searching for the 
truly varroa tolerant bee!

My advice to those making a living from beekeeping is to constantly monitor 
varroa levels *before* & *after* treatments. Alternate treatments  and work 
the advertised varroa tolerant and hygienic bees for sale into your 
operation .

Or

You can do as I do which is run the most prolific and honey producing bee 
you can find (forget about varroa tolerant and not really concerned about 
hygienic) and control varroa and nosema.

As I said the first week I came on BEE-L:( in the 1990's))

When a truly varroa tolerant bee , prolific and record honey producing is 
found I will buy queens and change over. I have tested many queens (many 
with claims attached) over the last couple decades and none have been the 
bee I am looking for.

I honestly believe the U.S. bees today with all their pest and disease 
issues are not half the bees we ran before mites and other issues. Every 
beekeeper which kept bees for the decade before mites (Pre mid 1980's) I 
have spoke with agrees with me.

Varroa math has been widely published. One failed varroa control and the 
next springs math changes.
Elimination of varroa from hives has been shown to be impossible. Hobby 
beekeepers which rarely feed bees do not see the varroa increase we see in 
commercial hives. Comparing hives not manipulated to hives moved from one 
pollination to another and feed gallons of syrup with patties is like 
comparing apples to oranges. The varroa math is different.

Fact:
commercial hives are usually either on a pollination or honey flow OR being 
fed. If not fed then the bees do what we call "going backwards".( queens 
shut down laying)  A super strong hive *sitting* needs a half gallon of feed 
a week to maintain strength between pollination and a honey flow.

I hope the bee the commercial beekeeper is looking for is found (and 
hopefully before long!) but I am not holding my breath!

bob

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