Hello Blane & All,
Blane asks:
> One question here.  Were these colonies killed by AFB or something>
> else?  If a colony dies from AFB there usually is lots of scale but>
> if a colony that is resistant is dealing with the disease but still>
> has a small amount of infected brood that isn't being removed and>
> dies from something else you would expect to find little scale.>

Actually the cause of death varied between still using *Apistan* and AFB (in
my opinion). The Varroa resistant to fluvalinate killed colonies created the
PMS frames. The beekeeper thought those were AFB. 75% of the frames were AFB
infected. None were typical with the whole oval pattern having sunken
perferated caps, strong smell or  ropey.

> Resistant bees can and sometimes do get AFB but will usually clean it>
> up over a few weeks time.  The colony is able to handle the some>
> disease and clean it out over time but it does take some time and you>
> may find a few cells of disease during this process.>

Explain what you mean when you say *clean it up*. Do we know what happens to
these lifetime viable spores? Are they placed outside the hive entrance?
stored in honey during the honey flow?

<The other  question is how much scale were they given?  Even strongly>
<hygenic  colonies that are given a lot of scale can be overwhelmed by it.>

This was the sad part. We were melting first year comb, in many cases on new
frames, with Dadant plasticell.  These beekeepers are seeing AFb the last
two years after treatment with Terramycin.  I have not said the exact way
these beekeepers are handling the problem on purpose.  Each beekeeper has
his own way of doing things.  Beekeepers for the most part are private
people and are set in their ways.  My fellow beekeepers let me share their
everyday problems with the list as long as I don't use their names.  In my
opinion only the best of the beekeepers are left.   The mites and other
problems have eleminated the rest.  I sincerely thank those beekeepers
belonging to the Midwestern Beekeepers assn. which allow me to talk about
their problems in hopes of helping other beekeepers.  I like to word the
post so only the beekeeper involved will know I am talking about their
problem.   Twice in the last decade I had years with high losses and allways
willing to talk about why my colonies died.    After you repopulate over 50%
of your colonies you become a better beekeeper and try harder to prevent
history from repeating itself.
>
> 2.  No.  TM resistant AFB produces plenty of scale - whole frames of>
> it just like you used to see and it looks and smells like AFB.  The>
> only difference that one sees is it does not respond normally to TM.>
> Even in properly treated colonies you will still see active AFB>
> including ropey larvae and scale being produced.  TM resistant AFB is>
> not the reason for you only finding scattered scales.>

Thanks Blane for the input. I believe we are seeing hygienic bees in action.

> 3.  I suspect you are not finding ropey larvae simply due to the>
> timing - it has been too long for the larvae to remain in the ropey>
> stage they have dried to scales.>

We allways used to find ropey in the days before hygienic bees. The ropey
material was *in my opinion* what caused the strong smell.

> USDA honey bee researchers are testing alternative antibiotics but>
> the folks at the beltsville lab may need to hear from more beekeepers>
> on the need for such a treatment.>

We were after Dr. Shiminuki before his retirement to come up with a
registered systemic treatment for AFB. Now I will settle for any registered
treatment. From a larger beekeepers standpoint all meds should be systemic.
Fill up their feeders like *pumping gas in the car* and end of mites,AFb and
starvation all at once. Wishfull thinking right!
Bob

PS I believe from this series of posts we all need to push for another
registered product for AFB.  Bring up the subject at bee meetings and when
talking to researchers!