On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 10:59 PM, Bill T <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>
> So you have a point source that will only increase the level of the
> pesticide in the soil if the next year the farmer is so precise that he/she
> plants every seed in the exact same place. And that would have to happen
> every year from now on.
>

You were a chemist weren't you Bill?  Two words:  solubility coefficient.
Water moves it around and it is no longer a point source.

That has implications for the spreadsheet because it can move out of the
zone of tested soil and plant root access.  It has bad implications for the
environment because it can move into groundwater and then into places where
its toxicity to aquatic larvae is problematic.

I assume that the soil tests submitted to the EPA were field tests and so a
reasonable basis for a model.

>
> But because some say that bees are in great danger from them, with little
> proof, we beekeepers want to ban them. So we will go back to the good old
> days of spray, more pesticides, human health issues, and bee kills that you
> can really see, not imagine with "sub lethal" doses. Spray yields lethal
> doses.
>

Allen just posted the link to the PMRA report on Ontario bee kills.  They
are now confirmed to be a result of the clothianidin / thiamethoxam seed
coatings.  Beekeepers saw them.

Perhaps someone from Ontario will post what the level of bee kills reported
previous to neonicotinoids was.

I know that in PEI "spray" did not often produce lethal effects.  And why
would we go back to the "good old days" when we are now have more
information about organic methods and "biological" methods (IPM, BT and
other targeted bacteria and fungi, beneficial nematodes, parasitic wasps
......

>
> If I was a farmer I would wonder just whose side Beekeepers are on.
>

????? Beekeepers ARE farmers.

Stan

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