BEE-L Archives

Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology

BEE-L@COMMUNITY.LSOFT.COM

Options: Use Monospaced Font
Show Text Part by Default
Show All Mail Headers

Message: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]
Topic: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]
Author: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]

Print Reply
Subject:
From:
James Fischer <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Wed, 5 Feb 2014 13:29:20 -0500
Content-Type:
text/plain
Parts/Attachments:
text/plain (126 lines)
> There was mention of making fuel 
> out of crop residues, not the edible seed

Yes. Work continues on this "cellulose biomass" approach.  Here's a recent
update from the MIT Technology Review (always a good read) pointing out the
significant problems with the basic premise of using corn, despite the
technological fixes:
http://www.technologyreview.com/news/514206/energy-department-backs-new-way-
to-make-diesel-from-corn/
http://tinyurl.com/lb4kt3k

Long story short, land that can grow food is too valuable to be utilized in
the very inefficient production of a small fraction of our energy needs, and
"cellulose" (switchgrass, et al) is a better choice, as it can be grown on
land that would not be suitable for growing food.

> There are many things that factor 
> into the ethanol issue.  Much more 
> complex than Mr Fischer and the 
> NYT comprehend.

But didn't we just correct your very basic misunderstanding of how much corn
grown in the USA is made into ethanol?  Wouldn't such basic things be a
"factor" that one needs to comprehend?  

Perhaps the NY Times seems too "liberal", even when merely printing the
views of credentialed experts.  How about the Washington Post? 
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/23/AR2007032301
625.html
http://tinyurl.com/33po2b

And when even Fox News slams the ethanol program, I'd call it a broad
consensus:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/11/13/prairies-vanishing-in-us-amid-push-for-
corn-ethanol-based-energy/
http://tinyurl.com/lpgt368


> James' MG mechanic made some money.

James is his own mechanic, and has converted several vehicles to
propane/methane.  James is more than a spectator in this subject area, not
only doing the math, but also torqueing his own head gaskets.  Did you know,
for example, that the iconic Ford 2000, 3000, 4000, 5000, and 7000-series
tractors included Lucas ignition systems identical to those found in 1960s
MGBs, including the mysterious "control box"?

> Maybe if we drove modern  American made cars you wouldn't notice.

Would you like to see the actual engine data from my 2001 Volvo v70?  I run
"VIDA" (Vehicle Information and Diagnostics for Aftersales) which gathers
real-time ODBI data from all 11 onboard computers via bluetooth to a laptop.
The difference between the 10% ethanol and pure 87 octane low-test gas
mileage difference works out to about 10%, even with the 2007 Volvo software
update intended to optimize engine performance with ethanol E-10.

And it is not just me, everyone notices, even those liberal tree-huggers at
Fox:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/05/16/ethanol-concerns-bring-customers-to-mor
e-costly-pure-gas-stations/
http://tinyurl.com/cgd4jrr

It is almost as if the ethanol is an inert, incombustible material in the
gasoline, as the loss in MPGs tends to exactly match the percentage ethanol
in the gas!

Worse yet, the mere process of converting corn into ethanol often uses more
fossil energy than the energy in the ethanol produced. This prompts complex
analysis and lots of squirming to create claims that "several factors can
easily change whether ethanol ends up a net energy winner or loser":
http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2007/ethanol.html
http://tinyurl.com/yb9zzqy

> Brazil is the world leader in ethanol fuels. 

From Sugar Cane, grown on bulldozed rain forest.  Better go see the rain
forest soon, before it's all gone. Then go see Glacier National Park, while
there is still some semblance of a glacier there.  Call me paranoid, I see a
connection.

> Funny how a 3rd world country can show 
> us the way to be smarter and cleaner.

Making sugar into alcohol is an old and well-tested process, but the experts
keep talking about cellulose as "smarter".  Haven't heard anyone call the
sugar cane ethanol "smart".  "Opportunistic", yes.  "Smart", no.

So, what to do?  Electric cars are, in essence, coal-powered.  Every time I
run the vacuum cleaner, I am reminded of entropy: that one can't make
someplace cleaner without making someplace else far more dirty as a direct
result.

And while we are on the subject of cars, there has been no such thing as a
purely "American" (USA-made) car for a long time.  The automakers are very
sketchy on this, for example the "80% North American Produced" Dodge Caravan
has an engine made in Mexico and is assembled in Canada.  Is that what you'd
call an "American car"?
 
Here is the list of the vehicles listing their percentage "North American"
content (which includes Canada as if it were a suburb of Detroit):
http://www.nhtsa.gov/Laws+&+Regulations/Part+583+American+Automobile+Labelin
g+Act+%28AALA%29+Reports
http://tinyurl.com/3epz6hv

So, if you want a mostly American-made car, most of them are Toyotas or
Hondas.

And the Superbowl Ad where Bob Dylan told us "WE will build your car" with
scenes of Detroit?  (Yeah, the guy with the Afro, you were supposed to
instantly recognize him as Dylan.)  Dylan sold out to Chrysler,  and the
featured Chrysler 200 has 74% North American parts, but the engine is
Mexican.  "Meet me at the border late tonight", indeed, Mr. Dylan.  :)

But wow - Dylan... sold out.
That leaves Jello Biafra of the Dead Kennedys, Alice in Chains, Frank Zappa,
Dream Theater, Pantera,
Tool... of course most of you have never heard of these groups, as their
integrity is matched only by their popularity with
skateboarders/snowboarders... and almost no one else.  :)

             ***********************************************
The BEE-L mailing list is powered by L-Soft's renowned
LISTSERV(R) list management software.  For more information, go to:
http://www.lsoft.com/LISTSERV-powered.html

ATOM RSS1 RSS2