>What exactly do you mean by  rear leg symptoms.
Rubbing of abdomen with rear legs(STR), rubbing rear legs together(ankle rub),
rear feet too close together when standing on all six feet 

>how do you know that there are more signs/symptoms to flesh  this out?
Over four years of observations?.  All symptoms remaining roughly the same

>You don't even know whether what you are seeing  and calling CCD  is the same 
Two sets of serious disease, both starting at the same time?
This is most unlikely. The variabily is probably because of 
slightly different pathogen mixes.

For example my bees likely don't have nosema
Tests done by OBA tech transfer(3 tests), BP(2)
After the first whole yard test was all 0 nosema (summer07),
then I stopped worrying. 4 Furthur tests, single hive tests, all 0
I bought a Q this summer and have now fed fumgillan, hope I am still 0

When it first started my bees had TM, but not since fall07

The year before (ccd) I had 0% winter loss
Then 80%+, 70%+, 60% loss (06-07, 07-08, 08-09)
So I'm somewhat sure that my bees have some serious disease

The initial spring(07) when inspecting the remenents for some
reason I ran them up a ramp.
(wanted to inspect frame closely, too many bees on it ....)
These were very unique nucs, they had the luxury of electric heat 
These symptoms were really obvious because 
so many bees were displaying them. (over 100 easily)
(more stayed out than usual)
I had never seen anything like this before, after 2 weeks it was not so extreme.
All the hives showed these symptoms, not just the nucs

A few days ago a bee picked up out of the snow gave a feeble STR, it was half chilled
I can not deny my eyes, I even have poor video

>I have no idea what is meant by these sentences.
A guessed reply to:
>>Some of your observations may actually suggest otherwise.
Since most of the absconds have been late season often there is no brood
Often I am then told: you don't have ccd because no brood

>There is one beekeeper who mentioned ants, and that was very early  on.
Probably me.  Check your mail, mid 07 & later
It was quite dramatic, the affect on the ants
As bad as on the bees.  
The ants recovered in a year, partialy, but only to 1/2?

Where there was close contact it appeared lethal,
but as usual no corpses.  
Just an abandonded nest start and not an ant to be seen.  
If the contact was not so close (ants in lid)
it seemed to sicken them, colony size ~1/4 or less.

Before (ccd), the hives were behind an oil moat 
spring and summer (but not 07)
I did not make this moat for idle amusement, ants were a BIG problem
(on this pallet)  But not after ccd

>-  CCD , worker bees leave, old queen and small retinue remain in  colony, 
>new queen may be produced, recovering colony often has two queens (old  and 
>new) working side by side, laying eggs
Is this mid-summer?
I call this ccd abscond, but usually Q goes too, nobody is left
Maybe because of no brood (late summer, fall)
This is too late in year for any recovery 

>First  beekeeper who mentioned this to me in 2006, added Vitamin C because his 5  year old 
>asked why Daddy wasn't pouring a bottle of Vitamin C in his home made  pollen sub.
Dennis?  I thought this was as an attractent to the patty (2004?)

>Vitamin C and CCD, seems to me to be pure speculation.
It is common knowledge in the nutrition field that some virus
do not like large dose VC, and thus do not reproduce well.
There are other effects than on the virus (detox, etc)
An easy experiment for anyone with ccd bees

Myself, since 09 have fed 10+gm (/hive/year)
zero winter loss 09-10, 
This winter don't know yet
Expect 35% loss due to very poor VD control
But if my opinion as to the efficacy of VC is wrong
then the loss will be 50%+ (due to viral causes)
My impression is that hive health is slightly improved

I'm not seeing a cyclic pattern, I get the impression
that if I let up, the ccd will be right back, within a year

Obviously dissection is a possable way to diagnose ccd
but not so convenient.

>If we can ID  the cause, we can find a reliable indicator of CCD
Simple? cheap? convenient?  And then what?

When appropriate, I suggest you do a ramp test
Then you may see what I am talking about

dave

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