From: [log in to unmask]
Forwarded to Bee List by Paul Chrubini <[log in to unmask]>

<<We have found in FL that generally if the label rates recommendations
 are followed and common sense applications made that no harm
will come to nontarget organisms including bees.>>
(Dr. Floore's bibliography follows at end of letter)

Dr. Floore:

    Paul Cerubini has forwarded to our list your comments and bibliography
about bee toxicity. Other than your opinion that you cite, that "no harm"
includes bees, you do not, in your bibliography include any relevant
research. All the listings you have are for human or other non-target
organisms, not Apis or Bombus or the other bee species used for pollination.

    I ask you why there is no study in your list that refers specifically to
Apis or Bombus?   Does this mean that officialdom doesn't want to see?

   Or is there actually a bona fide study of this?   I'd like to see one that
compares the impact on bees when labels are obeyed and when the bee
protection directions are violated.

    There are many indications contradicting your statement of opinion,
including reports of bee kills from the Medfly spraying in your state a
couple years ago. (BTW, were those beekeepers ever compensated?)   I
personally documented heavy losses of honeybees in the Homestead, Florida
area, following Hurricane Andrew, and you may find the article in the
archives of the Homestead newspaper, if you want to see it.  In this case,
the applications were clearly in violation of the bee directions of the
label, and I'm sure the beekeeper was never compensated.

    I have documented a heavily damaged beekeeping operation here in SC last
year, which has been officially admitted to be in violation of the bee label
directions. You can see this at: http://member.aol.com/gardenbees/    (Check
Part II)   (Incidently I also saw dying and dead butterflies after the
applications.)

    I personally lost tens of thousands in the post-Hugo applications
following Hurricane Hugo in 1989.  When this is compounded by the loss of my
income from lack of bees to rent for pollination, and production of nucs and
honey in the following season, my losses are easily over a hundred thousand.
Add to this the losses to farmers from loss of wild pollinators, and the
inability to get bees from beekeepers such as myself, then it runs into the
millions. I've never been compensated, nor have the farmers who also lost.

   I believe that losses of bees from the commonly used mosquito adulticides
is negligeable, IF they are applied according to the label, when bees are not
foraging. However, many of these applications are routinely in violation of
the label, and this is where the damage mounts up quickly.

   Applicators try to circumvent the label by telling beekeepers to protect
the bees, but this gives no protection whatsoever to many pollinators that
are un-tended such as Bombus, or that cannot be protected by beekeepers with
other jobs, etc. In my own case, the massive areal applications in 1989
affected my bees on any given day in multiple locations, many of which were
impossible to reach anyway, because of downed trees. At any rate I cannot be
in multiple locations at the same time.

   In eager expectation I, and the members of these Bee Lists, await your
response.

David L. Green
The Pollination Home Page   http://pollinator.com




Dr Floore's Bibliography

MOSQUITO PESTICIDE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT
PUBLICATIONS:

Moore, J.C., J.C. Dukes, J.R. Clark, J. Malone, C.F. Hallmon
and P.G. Hester. 1993 Downwind drift and deposition of malathion on
human targets from ground ultra-low volume mosquito sprays. Am.
Mosq. Control Assoc. 9:138-142.

Tietze, N.S., P.G. Hester and K.R. Shaffer. 1994. Mass recovery
 of malathion in  simulated open field mosquito adulticide tests. Archives
 of Environ. Contam. and Toxicol. 26:473-477.

Tietze, N.S., P.G. Hester, C.F. Hallmon, M.A. Olson, and K.R.
Shaffer. 1991. AcuteToxicity of mosquitocidal compounds to young
mosquitofish, Gambusia affinis. J. Amer. Mosquito Control
Assoc. 7:290-293.

Tietze, N.S., P.G. Hester, J.C. Dukes, C.F. Hallmon,
M.A. Olson, and K.R. Shaffer.1992. Acute toxicity of mosquitocidal
compounds to the inland silverside, Menidia beryllina. Florida Mosq.
 Control Assoc. 63:1-6.

Tietze, N.S. and E.T. Schreiber, P.G. Hester, C.F. Hallmon,
M.A. Olson, and K.R.Shaffer. 1993. Susceptibility of first instar
Toxorhynchites splendens to malathion, naled
 and resmethrin. J. Amer. Mosq. Control Assoc. 9:97-99

Tietze, N.S., J.P. Ruff, C. F. Hallmon, P.G. Hester and K.R.
Shaffer. 1992. Effect of ULV malathion on automotive paint finishes.
 J. Amer. Mosquito Control Assoc. 8:241-246.

Tietze, N.S. and E.T. Schreiber, P.G. Hester, C.F. Hallmon,
 M.A. Olson, and K.R.Shaffer. 1993. Susceptibility of first instar
Toxorhynchites splendens to malathion, naled
 and resmethrin. J. Amer. Mosq. Control Assoc. 9:97-99.

 Tietze, N.S., M.A. Olson, P.G. Hester, and J. J. Moore. 1994.
Tolerance of sewage treatment plant microorganisms to mosquitocides.
J. Amer Mosquito Control Assoc.9:477-479.

Tietze, N.S., P.G. Hester and K.R. Shaffer, S. Prescott and
E.T. Schreiber. 1999 Integrated management of waste tire
mosquitoes utilizing Mesocyclops longisetus
(Copepoda: Cyclopidae), Bacillus thuringiensis israelensis,
Bacillus sphaericus, and methoprene. J. Am. Mosq.
Control Assoc. 10:363-373.

 Tietze, N.S., P.G. Hester, K.R. Shaffer and F.T. Wakefield 1996.
 Peridomestic deposition of ultra-low volume malathion
 applied as a mosquito adulticide. Bull. Environ.
 Contam. Toxicol.. 56:210-218

 Tietze, N.S., P.G. Hester and K.R. Shaffer. 1994. Acute
toxicity of Permanone 31-66 (Permethrin-Piperonyl Butoxide)
 on nontarget minnows and grass shrimp. J. Am. Mosq.
 Control Assoc. 11:476-479

 Tietze, N.S., P.G. Hester, M. A. Olson, C. F. Hallmon and
 K.R. Shaffer. 1994. Acute toxicity of mosquito control compounds to
Cyprinodon variegatus and Menidia beryllina: laboratory and field tests.
J. Fla. Mosq. Control Assoc. 65:37-44.

Tietze, N.S., P.G. Hester and K.R. Shaffer. 1995. Acute
 effects of Permanone 31-66 (Permethrin-Piperonyl Butoxide)
 on nontarget minnows and grass shrimp. J. Am. Mosq.
 Control Assoc. 11:476-476.

.Tietze, N.S., P.G. Hester, K.R. Shaffer and F.T. Wakefield.
1996. Peridomestic deposition of ultra-low volume malathion
applied as a mosquito adulticide. Bull. Environ.
 Contam. Toxicol. 56:210-218.

 Tietze, N.S., K.R. Shaffer and P.G. Hester. 1996. Halflife of
naled under three test scenarios. J. Am. Mosq. Control Assoc.
12:251-254.