On 5 Sep 99, at 18:33, [log in to unmask] wrote:
> Perhaps all this angst is the product of a semantic
misunderstanding.
> If David could please explain exactly what he means by "regressive
> queens" and how he recognises them all may become clear. I did
make a
> small contribution to this discussion some time ago but retired,
> mystified.
>
> Chris Slade - thinking I should pour oil on troubled waters (or was
it
> dying embers, I can never get it right)
Hi Chris You can try to pour oil on troubled waters, but you'll need
a tanker full, believe me. The angst as you call it goes back a lot
of years and is a constant source of irritation to my wife, me and
others on this list.
As this message is unlikely to get past the moderators I am sending
you a copy just to show, I'm not rude. Since our first introduction
to Bee-L our posts have drawn flak from a number of members of this
list. Why? Not sure!
We've been accused of being here for business purposes on a number
of occasions. Jean has been told she was 'in her cups' (drunk) for
writing to one member. On other occasions discussing ventilation to
sell more hives, raising the matter of emergency queens to sell more
queens. Simple rudeness, and each point taken on it's own possibly
hardly worth contemplating, but viewed as a whole just like a chinese
water torture. Eventually one explodes and ergo my last epistle, not
that it does any good as the perpetrator continues on his merry way
year after year, oblivious to the animosity he is creating with his
arrogance.
Every time I complain, which is becoming less and less, I get loads
of messages from others in the same situation, it makes one wonder
just how long the list of those offended really is. Moderation hasn't
helped, as it appears very one sided. The sequence of events seems to
follow a pattern. First the original post which gets attacked by
snide remarks etc. The second message, protesting, and trying to
defend one's position is refused as being inflammatory. So it allows
the snide remarks to go unchallenged, promoting the view that the
conduct is acceptable.
Mind you, one perpetrator is a moderator, talk about the fox in
charge of the hen house! So as like many others on this list I'm
beginning to admit defeat, keep my ideas to myself, only speak when
spoken to, be a good boy and don't have an original thought. That is
the antitheses of beekeeping, original thought. I remember a guy
standing in front of one of our booths, looking at our new hive,
puzzled. When asked he said "It can't work" when I enquired why, he
said "Because nobody has thought of it before now", and he was deadly
serious. I think that explains the thinking of many beekeepers,
perhaps even our detractors.
Sorry!! I get so steamed up at times. All I ask. Why can't we work
together for the common good of beekeeping? There are some who can do
things without being concerned for the almighty dollar.
Back to "regressive queens". My dictionary defines regressive as
backwards, returning to a previous position, not that it matters.
That's my finding of emergency, self made queens, they go backwards.
You'll recall, in my original post, I gave the results of 8 years of
intense observation as a queen breeder, which was dismissed with a
casual wave of a hand. I possibly de-queen and re-queen more hives in
a year than any one around and both watch and note the results very
carefully. We have a very intense assessment program of all queens,
how raised and used in our yards, regardless of where they come from.
For example we were requested to take a large swarm away earlier in
the year and placed it in a special yard, already we like the strain
and have had a lab test done on them. Findings were interesting,
Nosema! Our bees are fed apple cider vinegar and are Nosema free!!
Just in passing.
So with our test program, note taking and intense observation I will
know more about queens than a 'commercial' who opens his hives
possibly 3-4 times a year. (Been there, done that).
As part of our assessment and rearing methods we need to maintain as
much queen diversity as possible, so rather than re-queen with the
same strain (as others do) we need to replace mother with daughter.
The easiest way, pinch out the old queen and allow the bees to make a
replacement. Provided these bees are kept separate (ie a way away
from the mating yard) they will have no influence on the mating of
brooder stock. Here comes the results. Given enough repeats, ie.
daughters replacing mothers via 'walk away' splits or emergency
raising over a period of generations the quality falls apart. We kept
results and notes over a 7 year period. After 3 generations it was
possible to note the difference. Aggression, poor wax making, lack of
forage ability, poor winterability all round lack of vigour.
After 5 generations we had to destroy one hive as being impossible
to work because of it's aggression. From these results we determined,
aggression is not a gene characteristic. We found that a grafted
queen replacing an angry queen producing angry bees would in 48 hours
calm that hive down to be workable. If it was in the worker bees
gene's it would take 8 weeks to calm down.
As to other problems, grafting from an angry hive produces angry
bees. Now there's a conundrum! Some one wanted to know if it depended
on the strain of bees? No. We found that the worst 'regression' came
from the Buckfast in our strains, but our 'Ontario' (closely
Italians) came a very strong second. Whether that is because we have
a mix in those bees is hard to determine and beyond our scope of
expertise. There is lots more information available, but I was hoping
for more discussion as there is still much to work on. I sincerely
hope this answers your questions on both these subjects, and
I apologise for my long winded post.
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The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2,
Orillia, Ontario, Canada.L3V 6H1.
Phone (705)326 7171 Fax (705)325 3461
David Eyre,
e-mail<[log in to unmask]>
http://www.beeworks.com
This months special:-Vest/veil combination
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