Randy said:
 What I found is that Bob is correct and I was wrong.

Bee-L is for exchanging information and ideas. Had I not corrected you many
other beekeepers on BEE-L would have. The subject has been discussed on
BEE-L before.

 I have used the using less pesticide myself as a small orchard grower
years before varroa arrived.
I found I could cut many pesticdes by as much as half and treat far less
times than the chemical companies recommended and still get perfect fruit.
You do take a risk of getting a worm in your apples or I should say your
customers do but people concerned  with buying an apple which has been
sprayed less times will take the risk!
Only a small percent of organic apples are perfect. Around 5% my friend
Michael Phillips says in his book on growing organic apples.

Raandy asks:
 Why do you believe that varroa cannot develop
resistance to thymol?

Varroa might at some point develop a resistance to thymol & formic acid but
to date no resistance   as shown up and both have been used in killing
varroa mites on bees  for many years. Both are not as effective as   the top
selling chemical strips  (98% varroa kill before resistance) despite what
you might hear as BOTH are temperature and humidity dependent and will
provide less control when temperatures go above or below the ideal.

I have seen chemical strips placed directly in the cluster in below freezing
weather and still provide control. However chemical resistance has  put many
a large beekeeper out of business. They treat without  a   follow up test
or in todays situation treat with a strip , find out the strip did not work
and then all  the options left is a temp dependant product and  cold weather
is already upon the beekeeper.
The migratory beekeeper can relocate south to "lick his wounds"
and rebuild but the beekeeper on permanant locations is simply going to be
picking up huge numbers of dead hives in spring.

Raandy said:
 If that statement is true, then thymol would definitely have one very
positive trait that would make it highly desirable.

I have recommended Api Life Var to beekeepers but very few large beekeepers
are willing to use the product for reasons the hobby beekeeper does not care
about such as having to make three trips in application and follow up
testing.

Randy said:
I am definitely of the opinion that all pests can develop resistances to any
pesticide unless there is generally a 100% kill from using the pesticide.

Very true and the reason alternating with another product is the best way to
slow resistance. However I am told (USDA bee labs) miss use of a certain
illegal product has created a super resistant varroa which when in your
hives can not be killed when you try to rotate back to the past chemicals
used aginst varroa.
A few large beekeepers tried a product (which I will not name) to control
varroa illegally. The coumaphos level was too low to ever provide a decent
control and only a slap in the face to varroa. Now these varroa are being
spread through out the world (heard the bad news first from Bob on BEE-L)
As the super varroa  spread (like varroa did when first arrived in areas of
the world) resistance to the chemical strips used in Europe and other
countries will happen and many beekeepers will be caught off guard.

Randy said:
That is probably more true in cases where we are using relatively "benign"
pesticides because we are trying to kill something so "insect like" as a
mite, while still not killing our bees.

 finding a product which will kill the blood sucking arachnids (varroa)
without killing bees is a problem.
In nature the worst enemies of spiders are other spiders. Would be wonderful
if varroa could be taught to feed on other varroa!

Bob

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