Brian asks:
>Jerry do you or does anyone have any data to support this claim that corn
>seed treatments are
causing big problems?

If you search the archives you will see the neonicotinoids have been
discussed over and over. In fact the first beekeeper to raise a concern on
BEE-L was Allen Dick and Allen has a huge amount of research on imidacloprid
on his website.

I admit I was slow to point the finger at imidacloprid but after the years
rolled on and speaking with many beeks from France, Italy & Germany I saw
beeks in areas of their use were having problems while others not in those
areas were not.

My testimonial:

" I have seen the light"

I really did not see much hive loss I could pin on imidacloprid myself until
the drought years of 2005 & 2006 in Missouri. We saw terrible unexplained
losses in areas of imidacloprid treated corn seed during and after corn
tassel. Hives in open range did fine. Testing showed imidacloprid in pollen
but at a level Bayer said would not harm bees.

The first year we bought what Bayer was selling.

The second year we DID NOT.

I listed my survival plans ( archives)  for drought years which is moving 
bees out of row
crop areas when corn tassels.

However I found that when other pollen is available bees avoid corn pollen.
I can honestly say I have not seen losses from the neonicotinoids the last
two years.

The above is from my personal experience. It is what it is.

 If I was out to
bring Bayer down I would lie and say I was still seeing  neonicotinoid 
problems.

I have spoke with plenty of Florida beeks which report imidacloprid losses
in orange. Dave H. reports losses in apples and pumpkins. In these cases
levels of imidacloprid ( PPM) have been found in pollen.

The first year of losses in pumpkins Dave H. bought what Bayer was selling.

After the second year of losses Dave H. will not do pumpkins with
neonicotinoids used. Nor will others I have been told. Dave H. spoke of the
above at the commercial beekeepers sig at the ABF convention last January.

 Beekeepers doing apples (myself) will not do apples if assail is to be used 
during bloom.

The discussion between beeks and Bayer is over what damage those PPM amounts
cause.

The Bayer position has changed if you follow their releases.

first was no imidacloprid in pollen. Then only PPB. Now PPM but only misuse 
would cause the PPM levels we have found.

Pending research at Penn State on sub lethal effects of imidacloprid
should shed some light. Early leaks from Penn State *seem* to support
sub lethal effects with the levels found in our hives but we need to wait 
for
the full report.

commercial beeks are the most concerned about the neonicotinoids in the U.S.
because they are the most effected. I personally have seen the losses. I
personally have had the losses.

Other than Stan ,Juanse and myself I do not know of any others on the list
which have seen first hand losses. On the list we hear the opinions of those
sitting on the bleachers but until you see the problem first hand in your
own bees (confirmed by testing) it is hard for me to take those opinions
serious.

U.S. beeks are now trying to prove that sub level effects are seen with the 
levels which we find in bee kills.

Corn pollen imidacloprid contamination is hard to prove as the test bees 
have to collect the pollen. At times they do not if a better pollen is 
available. At least we are past those  on BEE-L which said bees never 
collect corn pollen. Yes we had a few of those.

bob

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