> I keep getting many emails on this one sentence by Allen Dick, But realize 
> he was gone awhile from the list here. I am being told to clarify the time 
> frame

Thanks, Dee.  Nice to see a complete essay.

> Old eqjuip from the 7 CCD yards was reused, with nothing done to it.

I have heard conflicting reports. Was it really CCD?  If so, then your 
comments, above, seem to conflict with one of the defining criteria for 
identifying bona fide CCD.

> Saw nosema NO PROBLEM as identified by Dr Bromenshenk,

Dr. Fischer reported a different version of the story here recently and that 
a treatment was used if I understand him correctly.  Can you address that?

> and by the way with recent discussion here saying DeLaplane had found both 
> types of nosema in most all samples looked at for nosema now, taken years 
> ago,

Yes, the nosema story is starting to look a lot like the varroa 
jacobsoni/destructor oversight.

> Oldest samples I have found Id for nosema were in 1959 at Beltsville, Md, 
> looking at samples from all around the USA from bee colonies kept in the 
> USA, that for some reason showed origin of bees also from Australia!

That is interesting, I wonder how they were able to establish that in a 
period previous to current DNA methods, or is this recent work?  (Citations 
please).

> ...the ones from Austraila were nosema SPECIFIC with 17 positive of 23 
> samples looked at from the bees/hvies.............so question in my mind: 
> What they doing in USA?

Maybe some samples were sent over from Oz, and not taken from US bees?

> ... other states in USA then showing POSITIVE samples for Nosema that also 
> included the other maladies from same samples and showing positive for 
> AFB, EFB, para, Sac, Sept, Acarine, insective poisoning were...

Positive for acarine in 1959?   Citations please.

> ... except I did not use treatments as don't beleive in then, nor 
> artifricial feeds but instead used live and let die and breed from the 
> strong and let the weak go.and also for the record each yard has made a 
> barrel of honey and some more!! immediate year following.

OK.  I have already asked about the conflicting information received via the 
list and also backchannels.  I'm sure you will clarify.

You mention no stats on how many were originally standing and when, how many 
died and when, How many splits were made and when, and when the recovery was 
complete and count was made, what the numbers were.  I know commercial 
beekeepers keep detailed notes, so I'm trusting you can give us numbers. 
For the record.

A barrel of honey from 60 hives is not much, but maybe the yard is only ten 
hives?  Seems to me that your yards are much larger than that, though.

> So what Allen is thinking of what I was doing in 1980s and 1990s certainly 
> needs to be updated in his thoughts. But knowing how he was gone, see no 
> real problem for he was out of the loop and until someone explains more 
> the time frame he is just responding as he is aware. .....though not 
> current, but hopefully this will update the matter and also with recent 
> discussions here give others reading a chance now to go

Thanks for taking the time to write this out clearly.  I look forward to 
details that will help me understand this in real terms.

I was thinking of the earlier period.  However, let me add that my 
understanding is that recovering numbers in the south is not hard if no 
honey is to be produced.  In the north, successfully splitting up to 16 from 
one has been well-documented and in a short season area.  So please explain 
why recovering numbers as reported  is so remarkable?  I must be missing 
something.

> ...back further officiall looking at nosema to see how long both types 
> have actually in in USA and being in USA knowing that Canada and 
> Austrailia interchange, perhaps records should also now be looked at in 
> Canada deeper for knowing also!

I don't recall when we started getting Australian stock.  Seems it was in 
the seventies, since that is when we got chalkbrood, and I seem to recall 
that was where we figured it came from.

> Now, let me say, I can dig deeper into my files should it be wanted with 
> more for discussion.

Dig away. If you can answer my specific questions above, that would be much 
appreciated.

allen
http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/articles/oxalic_drip.htm
---
I have long since come to believe that people never mean half of what they 
say, and that it is best to disregard their talk and judge only their 
actions.
-- Dorothy Day (1897 - 1980), The Long Loneliness, 1952 

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