> On 7/04/2013 2:09 AM, Mike S wrote:
>
>> If you ban neonics, what is going to take the place of that pesticide?
>>
>
Geoff Mannings post about macadamia shows that neonics are not used there.
And Bill's post about insecticide kills before neonics is too general to be
useful in answering Mike's question because much of the same problem's that
led to insecticide kills are STILL problems, because neonics are not for
all uses.  Consider mosquito spraying which is the subject of many of the
insecticide kill posts on the list:  they will still be spraying with non
neonic insecticides for this.

We don't have to be that general.  Let's look at three specifics:  canola
(oil seed rape), corn, potatoes.

The canola growers I deal with tell me that the main insect pest of concern
is flea beetles in the seedling stage.  The bees are not even in the canola
fields at that stage, or if they are in flying distance there is not likely
to be any weeds flowering in the fields just after seeding.  And most
everything that is sprayed on the field at that time will be long broken
down before the bees start working.

Corn is not something I am that familiar with, but I know that we have
others on the list who are.  What got sprayed on corn before neonics and
when?  Wouldn't insecticides for earworm go on after the pollen stage? Were
any of the posts on insectide kills on the bee-l having to do with corn
Bill?  I don't remember any.  And growers of silage corn here never sprayed
any insecticides on it, but the dairy farmer I was talking to a couple of
days ago says he can't get corn seed anymore that isn't neonic seed
treated.   I notice that clothianidin is still banned on corn in Germany
according to Peter's last post.   I haven't read that there has been any
reduction in the corn acreage there.

Potatoes here used to be sprayed multiple times.  But bees don't visit the
flowers (any species of bee to my knowledge) and the fields are cultivated
regularly and rarely have any amount of weeds in them.  I would gladly go
back to those sprays than treat with something that will be in the soil and
expressed in succeeding years, which we know happens with imidacloprid
here, and will likely be even more problematic with clothianidin since the
half life is even longer.

I do remember one year when I had to move my hives out of pumpkin
pollination because they had to aerial spray.  But that was just one time,
and remarkably in all the other years I have pollinated pumpkins there has
been no need for spray despite the very long flowering period.

I think that you have to be more specific about the usage for any
comparisons to be useful.

Stan

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