the m.gilliam references in this post come from:

"Identification and roles of non-pathogenic microflora associated with honey bees"  Martha Gilliam  U.S. Department of Agriculture, Agricultural Research Service, Carl Hayden Bee Research Center, 2000 E. Allen Road, Tucson, AZ 85719, USA
Recieved June 1997, accepted july 1997

-- James Fischer <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>if there is any sort of peer-reviewed work that supports the claim that any SPECIFIC microorganisms are required for the uses
claimed, such as "bee bread".  Specific species.

this is a very understudied area of bee research.  m.gilliam did cite a study where pollen was irradiated and then innoculated only by lactic acid bacteria.  while not exactly what you are asking for, it does show that not every microorganism (not even the obvious suspects) will produce suitable beebread:
"The conversion of pollen to bee bread and the accompanying biochemical changes have been postulated to result  from microbial action, principally a lactic acid fermentation caused by bacteria and yeasts.  However, Pain and Maugenet sterilized pollen with (gamma?)-irradiation, then seeded it with Lactobacillus, and determined that a pure lactic acid fermentation produced an unappetizing product of poor nutritive value for bees.  They thought that  yeasts played the most important role from a nutritional standpoint."

>>one must consistently find a unique species or set of species that perform a specific unique function.

again, from m. gilliam, wrt chalkbrood:
"A secondary mechanism of resistance is the addition durring pollen collection and storage by bees of antagonistic molds and Bacillus spp.  that inhibit the pathogen.  Bee colonies that are resistant or tollerant have more of these antagnists.  Antimycotic substances active against A. apis were not produced by bees, larvae, bee bread, or honey.  However, bee bread and the guts of worker bees, the major source of the pathogen, were the primary sources of the antagonistic microorganisms.  Thus, antimycotic substances were produced by microorganisms that originated in worker bee intestines.  These microorganisms were added to pollen by the bees."..."Twenty-seven strains of antagonistic endospore-forming bacteria were isolated and identified as belonging to six species (paenibacillus alvei, B. circulans, B. licheniformis, B. megaterium, B. pumilus, and B. subtilis)."


>Dekow's repeated claim that "No Hive Is An Island" is
still lacks an acknowledgement of my observation
that "No Hive Lives In A Vacuum". 

actually, i responded to your observation.
http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0805C&L=BEE-L&P=R2326&I=-3


>Specifically, even if one did the best one could do to "sterilize"
a hive, such as with irradiation, the bees themselves
would soon bring in an adequate mix of random yeasts,
molds and other "microorganisms" to replace any that
might have been killed off by the irradiation or other
treatment (acid, fumes, whatever).

>>>with all due respect jim, this is not an observation, this is postulation....unless you have observed this.

Further, I don't ever recall anyone saying that the
bees needed anything except enzymes to make "bee bread",

"Our studies of floral and corbicular pollen and of bee bread stored over time in comb cells of the hive, all from the same plant species, demonstrated that pollen from a flower changes microbiologically and biochemically as soon as a honey bee collects it.  Bees moisten pollen with regurgitated nectar or honey to facilitate packeing inot he corbiculae, add glandular secretions, and inoculate it with microbes."


>and I expect ...we could raise perfectly healthy bees on irradiated 
pollen, pure sugar water made from irradiated sugar and 
distilled water, and purified air in a sealed environment.

although i'm sure the bees could survive for some period of time under such conditions, i seriously doubt that you could keep a colony healthy long term under such conditions....especially if one were to sterilize the bees themselves of microorganisms.
  
>It would be a boring life for the bees, but my point would
be that bees can not just survive, but thrive in a "sterile" 
environment, where all microogranisms are deliberately hunted 
down and killed on a regular and consistent basis.

if this is your "point", what data is it based on?  i think it's more of an assumption.


deknow

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