Apologies to old wives for my flippant response to Dave's DNA study post.
Old wives can go wherever they please!
 
After spending more grey matter on Dave's post I offer the following.
 
> ... <DNA investigation of> open mating of queens reveals ...
>    a) The workers, on average came from 10 different drones.
 
The operative word here is "average".  It is commonly asserted that
queens mate with between 10 and 20 drones.  Quoted study puts it closer
to 10.  Nothing earth shattering here.
 
>   b) There are roughly equal numbers of workers from the 10 drones,
>      so the queen not only stores the sperm but also uses it equally
>      and randomly.
 
This is contrary to what I learned at queen rearing school where the
assertion was that semen from different drones remained separate and got
used in batches.  Drone 1, then drone 2, ... then drone x, where x
varied from 10 to 20.  However that assertion seemed flawed to me at the
time because I couldn't fathom how the sperm stayed segregated within
the queens' spermatheca.  Brownian motion aside, we're talking live
swimming critters here - or are we?  Don't want to be anthropomorphic.
Regardless, the study seems more like how I would imagine it would HAVE
to work.  Put 10 samples in a container and the samples should get mixed
up, like a drop of red dye in a container of water eventually yields a
contained of pink water.
 
>   c) ...  the workers have an enormous amount of variation in their
>   characteristics.
 
Again, expected (obvious), nothing earth shattering.  Startin' to sound
like an expensive study to conclude the obvious.
 
>   d) When a swarm occurred the workers did not divide randomly; they
>   divided very much according to their drone parents, the swarm
>   consisting very largely of workers from only three or four drones.
 
To me this is the most interesting revelation from the study!  The
swarm splits along the strongest family lines!  Kind of like the
Hatfields take wing and the McCoys stay home.  Did the study say
anything regarding the ages of the swarming bees?  Did the swarm consist
of all ages of like-father bees?  How do the drones decide whether to
stay or swarm?  There is no "family allegiance" in their case.  Raises
all sorts of interesting questions which probably will never get
answered.
 
> If DNA samples from queens and drones could be compared during a
> breeding program, then maybe the results could be used to improve
> selection in the future.
 
Hmmm - not sure how this could be accomplished.  DNA footprint for
queens can be obtained from any of her male progeny, DNA footprint for
donor drones can be obtained from the drone (mating kills them anyway),
so now we have our footprints, but to what end?  This kind of study will
have left the realm of open mating and moved into AI, but again, what do
these DNA footprints gain for us?  I guess a better mapping of traits
of the players (queens and drones) but again it seems like high priced
science to accomplish that which an observant queen breeder is already
doing.
 
Dave, am I over simplifying here?  I mean it's a very interesting study
and all, the bit about swarms split along party lines is REAL neat,
as is the mixing and random use of sperm, but I don't see what is
gained.  The useful applications elude me.  I bet a week's wages Andy
would call this BS!
 
Aaron Morris - yada, yada, yada!