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From:
Michael Palmer <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Thu, 13 Nov 2003 22:34:27 -0500
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>
> > The strong colonies lost enough strength to make a nuc...that's $60.
>
>Well, hold on there... aren't you counting the impact twice here?
>I can understand that they had to be fed (more), and missed out on
>some of the early spring flow, but if the colonies lost strength,
>doesn't that mean that they were not provisioned well enough, and
>also were not fed?


Not at all. I'm talking about strong well provisioned colonies. My yards
were 2 - 10 miles from the orchard. I marked the strong colonies when I got
them ready for the orchard. After moving them in, I could do my spring
splits...it's easier when the bees are in the orchard, because they're all
there together, and there isn't any driving time between yards. Anyway, a
significant number of the strong colonies lost enough bees...lost on their
first flight??...that the hives could no longer be split.
         I'm also not talking about just early spring flows, lost due to
moving the colonies. The bees are setback for the whole summer...unless
there is one hell of a flow.


> > The pollinators always had to be fed more for winter.
>
>Same question as above.  You now appear to be counting the same
>impact 3 times.

What can I say. All the honey was in the supers, and not much in the brood
nest. The beekeeper who took over the contract just fed the most syrup his
bees ever needed...and he says his bees are still light, while I fed about
3 lbs average per hive.


> > And then there's wintering. I always lost 10 to 15% more colonies of
> > those that pollinated than those that didn't.
>
>... counting the impact 4 times?  Of course, if you had to do all of the
>above to most colonies, and still had losses, I guess it is a valid way
>of looking at it.


Well, if pollination impacts my bottom line in four ways, then I have to
count all of them.

1. They lost a super of honey.
2. Strong colonies lost enough strength to make up a nuc.
3. The bees had to be fed significantly more syrup than colonies that
weren't moved.
4. The pollinators never wintered as well.

Four negative impacts on my income...all arising from moving the bees into
and then out of the  orchard.


> > So, for a $35 pollination fee, I could lose more than $100 in income.
> > Hardly a minor compromise, wouldn't you say?
>
>I'm not sure I agree with your bookkeeping methodology, but maybe you
>have a season that is 99% "spring flow" with very little summer flow.


No, we have a good progression of flown throughout the summer and into the
fall...135 lb average in '02.

>Yes, hive top feeders are almost a required item if the apple bloom is
>"extended" by cool temps or rain, but aside from the problem of "extra
>feeding", I have not noticed the other negative impacts, certainly not
>the over-wintering losses.


I never ran my colonies that close to starvation. I always left them plenty
heavy. Any that were seriously light were well fed before pollination. Try
pollinating with part of a yard, and leaving the rest of the bees in the
yard. I bet you see a difference.
         As far as not seeing a difference in wintering...you're WayTheHeck
south of WhereTheHeck...right? Where the ground is brown all winter?


>But yeah, bees can starve on apples.  From what they get out of the deal,
>it is a wonder that they forage apple trees at all.  I do know that if
>the grower does not mow his understory before hive deployment, the bees
>will ignore the apple trees and go for nearly anything ELSE they can find.

I guess it depends on the size of the orchard. I pollinated Chazy
Orchards...advertised as the largest Macintosh orchard in the world...their
words. With all they have to do anyway, keeping the understory mowed is
next to impossible. Provide good bees, and the crop will get
pollinated...no matter what the understory.

My bees usually gained some weight in the orchard.


>                 jim (So, like, where are we going?
>                  ...And what's with the handbasket?)

  I'm goin' to bed...I have my last two yards to wrap tomorrow, it's
snowing like mad outside, and I need to get an early start.

Mike...farther north than most would like...just closer to heaven for me.

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