Bear in mind that the Whitehorn study used 6ppb imidacloprid and Morandin
>> and Winston used 7ppb. These values may be a little on the high side - but
>> still conceivable values for real-life field situations.
>>
>
> a little on the high side for real life field situations?
>
> Today we talk in PPM imidacloprid. Back then (2003) chemical companies said
> PPB were the highest ever to be found in pollen or nectar.


From the RFDI study

Treatment with the lowest dose of imidacloprid (0.15 ng; 11.5 ppb), which
> is about five-fold higher than any residues found in nectar...
>

Seems to be some differences here. PPM have never been mentioned as far as
I know so where did that concentration come from?

I would love to see some order out of this.So far, what seems to be coming
out is that high doses not found in nature have harmful effects on bees.
Doses found in nature either have no or have some effect but I am not sure
what they are, so could someone quote the studies to show where reality
meets reality? It seems like around 2ppb is what is found in the field,
compared to 7ppb and 11.5 ppb in the tests. Or am I missing something here?

If we were looking at formic or oxalic acid in hives and tested with 3 to 5
times the concentration, we all know there will be problems, in fact major
ones. I understand that thresholds are a normal thing to test for, which
seems to be the purpose of the RFDI study. But what is the "safe" threshold
for the different neonicitinoids?

It might only be me, but this whole thing is a bit muddled with honeybees,
bumblebees, high doses, PPM, PPB, and rapid extrapolations mixed in a stew
which makes it difficult to come to any rational conclusion as to just what
is going on.

Peter, where are you when we need you?

Bill Truesdell
Bath, Maine

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