TW>From: Trevor Weatherhead <[log in to unmask]>
>Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 20:30:00 -0400
>Subject: Re: - Body protein measurements
>with competition from natural pollens that result in wastage.
Hi Trevor,
*** What I write is not meant to be personal or critical of what has
already been written and is only my own opinion and written only to add
to the body of the tread. I add this because I know some of the list
work for governments and have very thin skins, (they don't get outside
enough), or are more nationalistic then this poor gringo. I have found
that in a dark room it is hard to tell the government beekeepers for the
real people, and so it is in this list. (Well, on second thought maybe
the government people do smell better in the dark, and spell better in
the list.)
So I BEElieve',
If the bees waste your diet then it may not be complete, lacks the
proper amount of sugar, or you are starting too late in the season.
TW>Firstly, from the thread on Bee-L, I think there needs to be the distinction
>made between supplements and substitutes. We know from work that if there i
>no natural pollen then feeding as a substitute will be alright for say two
>rounds of brood but after that it can be deadly.
A distinction should be first made between what bees eat and pollen.
Bee collected pollen alone or force fed in a liquid diet will stop all
brood rearing activity and depending on the pollen, plug the bees up
tighter then super glue. Looking at bee collected pollen is not the same
as looking at bee food, but is good and should make one want to look at
the bee food if for no other reason then to see how the bees change what
we find in the pollen.
The natural food for bees is a fermentation product made from pollen and
their own secret recipes, some call it bee bread. All food is taken up
through the straw they carry with them, and none is chunked off and
eaten. The pollen cells with the film of liquid on top are the one's
being used as food, all others are of no value other then pollen in
storage. All food, and all protein food must be of the right size to
liquefy and be sucked up for a bee to use it. Bees will die fast if all
they have is a field of pollen loaded flowers and no hive to work it
into bee food or bee bread under the ideal fermentation conditions
normally found in the brood rearing area of the bee hive. Changes are
made to the bee collected pollen and no doubt there is some
neutralization or dilution of what would be bee toxins, but not all bee
toxins, natural or man made for sure are or can be changed by the bees
and they suffer much from them I am sure. (For the PETA spy's)
TW>We tend to use supplements. This is where there is natural pollen but eithe
>it is not enough or bad weather intervenes and stops collection or the
>pollen they are collecting is deficient in either one or more of the amino
>acids.
Thats called a safety net, if your artificial diet is lacking in anything
the bees will make it up with the natural as little if any artificial
diets are stored in the hive for later use. If a diet is not good enough
for long periods when NO pollen is in the hive it is doubtful of its
value when pollen is coming in..(40+ seasons observations, no two the
same)
TW>I mentioned before that some of our pollens are deficient in iso-leucine. T
>other amino acid that can be deficient in methionine. We tend to use expell
>soya flour as a supplement. It is interesting to note that if you feed soya
>in a top feeder the bees do not take much but put it out in the open and the
>will be all over it.
The best natural food for bees is a mixture of that made from several
kinds of pollens. Some single source pollens actually cause a reduction
of brood rearing, and some cause bees to hatch that have little of what
it takes to feed young bees, and/or these skinny bees don't live as
long as normal bees and some may never reach forager age.
NONE or few pollen's, (as there is always some exception growing in an
isolated area that will not conform with my rule's), anyway most of the
time NO single source pollen makes good bee food. The other end of this
rule is that pollen from some plants that produce poor quality pollen is
better then NO pollen and bees can overcome most natural disasters.
One such poor pollen is from the Almond, a pollen in the United States
that most commercial beekeepers can not avoid as the smell of money has
a way of over coming the common senses's. Almond pollen may contain a
high sugar or wood sugar that is actually detrimental to honeybees.
Other pollens that are not good by themselves is that from the fall
tar weeds, which will shut brood rearing down in a few weeks and plug up
the hive with pollen. In areas that have dandy lions in amounts that
surplus honey can be produced one out of three years, you can expect the
worse brake down of EFB without treatment early and during the blooming
period. Some gum trees transplanted in California that bloom in the
spring will cause the same problems. A famous plant, named by beekeepers
long gone, as is this plant that once grew by the 10's of thousands of
acres in the flood plains of the central valley of California, called
Jack Ass Clover, not a clover at all, but named because the beekeepers
would have a hard time finding their Ass's when a hard days work was
done, (some will say a common problem yet today), but they needed to
hitch them back up to the old time bee wagons. (Today we expect them
to go out and load a truck with bees.) Anyhow, this plant bloomed in the
late summer and produced much honey until frost, and would grow taller
then the Jack's ear's and rear end, and I have seen it, higher then the
top of a loaded 10 wheeler bee truck...100% of the bees wintered on and
in this bee pasture source would end up having EFB the next spring and
local migratory beekeeping started just to move these hives to costal
locations so they would start earlier and over come the effects of this
fine honey plant.
TW>One person here in Australia has developed a patty using soya, torula yeast,
>irradiated pollen and irradiated honey. These are feed to the colonies by
>placing them in the brood nest. The reason the pollen and honey are
>irradiated is to get rid of nasties like chalkbrood and AFB.
TW>The theory is that, if say a pollen is deficient in iso-leucine, then the be
>has to cunsume a lot more pollen to get the amount of iso-leucine necessary.
>By feeding a supplement like soya which is high in iso-leucine (i.e. it is
>above De Groots ideal ratio), then this will raise the level of iso-leucine
>so that the bee will not have to consume as much pollen.
TW>You might ask what happens to the rest of the amino acids that are consumed
>excess. We are told this is excreted. So we see it as not wasting pollen b
>actually helping extend the pollen being colleceted.
TW>On the bee side, we know from research that there can a raising of the level
>of the bee's body protein by supplementary feeding when pollens, that are
>deficient, are being collected.
TW>There have been trials carried out in Australia on the palability of various
>supplements and substitutes. We have information from a pilot trial that
>indicates that looking after the nutrition side may help in preventing hives
>from getting EFB, which after all is a stress related disease.
Torula yeast is the best bee food depending what it is made from, there
is a BIG difference between the food source from which the yeast is
made. That made from forest by products is IMHO superior to that made
from corn.
All activity in the bee hive is a STRESS, success is by accident and
depends on the ratio of stress to income, be it bees reared, swarms
released or the pounds of pollen and honey produced needed for the
seasons activity and the coming dearth after the last visit by the
beekeeper who takes his cut of the honey.
A beekeepers observation on the down side of artificial and out of
season bee diets;
Feeding bees magnifies ALL bee health problems such as EFB, chalk brood,
vampire mites and you name it. If you want to study these problems you
first learn how to rear bees out of season because it does magnify the
problems and makes them easier to study without the magic of the
strange variety of pollen that comes into a beehive during the active
season.
Here in the US we would bee up the creek as far a commercial bee feeding
if it were not for the prophylactic use of TM as until you experience a
EFB loss in the middle of your spring build up the day before you start
shaking bees for shipping or just before the main honey flow it is
impossible to realize what can happen in a few days time with brood
diseases such as what we call EFB...
TW>Anyway, I think we now realise that nutrition is far more important that we
>have previously realised. We in Australia are putting more money into
>research in this field as the diminishing floral resource means we have to g
>smarter in managing our colonies.
More power to the Queen, no one would disagree with you and we are
all looking forward to more from good works now going on in Australia,
but this is not a new subject or problem and a little library research
would show any who care to look just how much has been done by both
science and beekeepers, including much respected nutrition work done in
Australia.
ttul, the OLd Drone
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in any form, or to print for any use.
(w)Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk.
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