In article <[log in to unmask]>, Lloyd Spear
<[log in to unmask]> writes
>In Europe this is done primarily because of the steep differences between=
> honey prices and sugar syrup.  Their honey prices are very high because =
>their consumers and packers are "educated" to reject the imported honeys =
>that have been so over-processed that they are only sweet...with no honey=
> taste.  (They laugh at the honey at the honey from Argentina and China t=
>hat we accept so readily.)  Their sugar prices are also very low because =
>of high world production...and a lack of subsidies that keep our own suga=
>r prices approximately 2X world prices.

I do not know where you got this info from Lloyd, but it is seriously
off-beam.

Europe imports vast amounts if honey from China and Argentina, they go
on to form the basis of most generic blends found in supermarkets, and
underpin the relatively modest prices at retail level. There is import
duty which keeps the prices a bit above US levels, but still not high.

There is some variation between EU member states in terms of being
discerning about quality. Like anywhere else there is the niche market
of discerning customers at the top end, a spectrum of less interested in
the middle, and a majority class of customer who just want 'honey' and
whose idea of differentiation is 'runny' or 'thick'. They just want the
cheapest. Same on both sides of the pond I would think.

As regards your bit about sugar prices, well there is the Common
Agricultural Policy to 'thank' for EU pricing. I do not know why you
think we get our sugar so cheaply when that is not the case at all. This
policy fixes sugar pricing throughout the EU and it is ALWAYS above
world price, I believe essentially set at such a level as to protect
beet sugar farmers from bankruptcy.

Now I do not know what price you are paying for white sugar but here you
will pay GBP 800+ per tonne (around USD 1200). This is for dry white
sugar at normal prices. (Chinese honey, often below GBP700 per tonne and
currently around GBP900 per tonne, is almost in the same ball park)
If you are prepared to shop around the supermarket and discounters for
loss-leader sugar, normally in 1kg bags, you can get it for about 60% of
that rate. Many small scale beekeepers do that and then tell you that is
the price of sugar, but not actually so. This is strictly a loss leader.
Invert syrup for bees costs from USD 650 to 800 per tonne, depending on
quality and quantity. Some Maltose rich ones are just coming to market
now and will be up to 20% cheaper. However, these are 72% solids instead
of the 95%+ of dry white sugar. This equates to a white sugar equivalent
of over USD 900 per tonne.

I do not know if this seems cheap to you, but from all reports I have
heard it is expensive.

Several years ago the EU had too much sugar and needed to offload the
surplus. The price here at the time was about 40c per kg, and was
offloaded into the US market at about 14c per kg, much of which
apparently went for bee feeding, causing many complaints from both sides
of the Atlantic at the time.
>
>Those taking all honey and feeding syrup in the US and Canada do so becau=
>se of one of two reasons:
>2.  Studies have shown that syrup is better than honey as a winter food. =
>I don't really understand what that means.  Again, perhaps someone else c=
>an help on this one.

No indigestible constituents to accumulate in the gut means little need
to defecate in mid winter. In areas with long weather imposed periods of
confinement this is beneficial. I used to doubt the veracity of this
myself, until I saw how well it worked in Scandinavia against using
natural stores. No doubt in my mind now that the old fashioned way in
our climate of leaving them with natural stores is not really for the
best. Avoidance of stress is first factor, but fresh clean stores comes
a close second. Inevitably the avoidance of stress means we end up in a
compromise situation here where we leave them with minimal natural
stores, and then feed a reasonable amount of syrup.

Watch out for over feeding though which can also cost in colony losses
in long winters. If you give them so much that they do not have room for
that last cycle of brood going into winter you have less young bees for
spring (written strictly from a dark bee/northern european perspective).

--
Murray McGregor