Hello Stan & All,
I doubt people from Bayer will comment as long as litigation is going on
(has been the Bayer position in the past). The focus of my post is on
pesticide problems in general and not on your specific problem or the class
action lawsuit in the U.S. against Bayer.

Bayer has a large plant & office in Topeka, Kansas and I have spoke with
people from Bayer on many occasions. Manly when Bayer registered Checkmite.
Checkmite (although blasted on BEE-L) saved many a commercial beekeeper from
bankruptcy. Now varroa is resistant to Checkmite in many areas and in my
opinion the future of many large commercial *pollination* operations is on
the line. I will detail what I am talking about for the hobby beekeeper is
they are interested but not in this post.

From my own personal expierence and the keeping of bees for over 40 years in
the U.S. I can say that *proving* pesticide death in bees is hard against
big companies. Their liability is in labeling. The buck then passes to the
applicater.

Since varroa has entered the picture powerful lawyers have been able to use
varroa and other beekeeping problems to place doubt in the mind of juries. A
cut & dried lawsuit in Florida went against the beekeepers in such a way.

The researchers at Bayer (I have talked to and Bayer filmed a video about
proper use of Checkmite with Midwestern beekeepers bees) are concerned about
Imidacloprid being a possible cause of hive problems. They are far removed
from the legal department which have been given the task of fighting
litigation.

Pesticide problems have always been around but began to lower in the 70's
(U.S.) and the U.S.D.A. (U.S.  1978 I believe from memory) dropped the
payment  for hives killed by pesticides.

Many lawsuits were filled against chemical companies by beekeepers years ago
to no avail as proof beyound a reasonable doubt was hard to prove in court.
The U.S.D.A. stepped in and provided a small bee replacement payment.
Although the payment was about a fourth what the payment should have been
(my opinion) the payment helped and was not hard to get. I am sure the
U.S.D.A. paid for hives (at times) which did not die from pesticide kills
but the USDA was (as it should have been ) concerned that loss of bees back
then would cause beekeepers  to give up beekeeping.

Numbers of commercial beekeepers have dropped each year since I started
beekeeping and I personally see the trend continuing. Many commercial honey
producers have said if or when the current price of honey drops back to
former low prices they are getting out (retiring). Large hive kills (U.S.)
can not help but cause commercial beekeepers in those areas to consider
getting out of beekeeping if faced with an unresolved Imidacloprid solution
or a possible relocation to another part of the U.S. to get away from the
problem.

My friends Jerry B. & Eric M. have been trying to make the commercial
beekeeping community aware of the rising problem of U.S. pesticide kills and
wax contamination. So far their voices have been falling on deaf ears as
shown by the small attendance at their talk at the ABF meeting last January
in Jacksonville, Florida. At least Allen Dick and myself see the rising
problem of imidacloprid use and other pesticide issues as a rising problem
needing confrontation by all beekeeping associations and we attended.

Many have rebelled against my *solution* to many pesticide kill problems as
posted on BEE-L in the past but I find removing the hives from the areas of
pesticide kills as the best solution. Has worked for me. Once I lose a yard
to a farmer/grower not following label I am gone from the area. I will not
set a yard within five miles of a grower using Penncap -M spray. Period! I
used to listen to their stories of how they mow under the trees and only
spray at dusk but hives kept dying so I knew the farmer/growers were lying
to me. Attempts at getting paid for dead hives always failed.

Looking forward to a discussion on your topic Stan but silence from the list
is what I expect. I have no direct experience with imidacloprid nor have
seen any losses over the last decade from pesticides I could not explain and
get to the bottom of so will lurk on the side and try to learn from the
discussion so I can be prepared for imidacloprid problems when they reach my
area.

Sincerely,
Bob Harrison
Odessa, Missouri

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