Hello Peter & All,
Peter said:
>Randy it appears, is currently experiencing this situation....hives coming
>out of almonds so strong that they are at swarming strength and he is
>preoccupied splitting to avoid losing them into the trees. Meanwhile they
>have phenomenally high spore loads....10 to 15 million per bee! (Was that
>the figure?), but certainly well into the generally agreed critically
>dangerous level.

I really hadn't thought about the above but does appear at the second Higes
stage if Randy has not treated with fumigillin within the last 12-18 months.
However others which have been treating regularly in syrup once in say
spring & fall with fumigillin are reporting high spore counts in *some*
hives but not all hives which is most puzzling to me.

The reason I would use a drench at a higher dose ( up to 3-4 times) to bring
down a 15 million spore count instead of simply feeding fumigillin once in
syrup in spring at the dose of one 9.5 gram bottle for 120 hives ( winter
one 9.5 gram bottle for 60 hives) .

>As I understand it, if Higes, and Bob Harrison are correct, he will lose
>them late this season or over winter at the end of this season, whatever
>treatment regime he employs, because the problem is too far advanced.

What fools beekeepers is when Randy checks in a few weeks ( after the snow
melts) he will see that spore levels have dropped ( which Higes describes)
and might think a treatment might not be needed.
Then next fall the spore loads should spike again only the *number* of hives
with high spore loads should increase. Then his bees ( if following the
higes pattern) should be close to the fourth stage. It would be interesting
to have Randy leave some of these 15 million spore count hives untreated and
see if they follow the higes hypothesis. My guess & personal experience  is
they will crash if they were in the Midwest in late summer or early winter..

>If Juanse is correct, he can save them if he treats intensively now, and
>again in the autumn using Fumagillin at high dose.

I agree and would do the above.

My experience ( which Randy knows about) is only around 50% will survive
late stage nosema ceranae and those "dinks" which is why I believe I do not
want to see hives approaching stage four.

>I think all agree that Nosema ceranae is a very serious problem, probably
>at least as serious as varroa, and therefore requiring the same degree of
>monitoring and management.

Oddly Peter I had a call with a commercial beekeeper in Australia a few
minutes ago regarding nosema ceranae. I advised to test foragers & then
nurse bees. Then you can get a handle on which stage your bees are at (
according to the Higes formula).  I can not speak to nosema ceranae issues
on both coasts (other cell phone information with those fighting nosema
issues) but the Higes hypothesis fits perfectly for my area of the Midwest.

Of course my friend  Randy will come on line soon I suspect and post
research saying the opposite of what I am saying. Lucky for me Randy is most
likely out clearing snow from his hives so I can at least get Higes and my
hypothesis in front of the list so each can decide a course of action.

We had perfect weather for moving bees into apples. All in now and could
have rented a higher number if available.

bob

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