> Jim, could you please remind me where you found proof that the
following 
> statement is true?   "Now remember, this sort of advocacy has been
directly 
> responsible for the EXTINCTION of at least two kinds of bumblebees."  

This thread has the quotes and the URLs to the quotes 
you seek. For example, the post of Tue, 10 Jul 2007 15:24:09.  

At risk of angering the moderators, I will provide the 
quotes again here, as it seems clear that there are those 
who want to argue without even doing the basic homework 
of reading the discussion thread here on Bee-L. 

"The bumble bee subgenus Bombus is represented 
by five species in North America. Of these, one, 
B. franklini, may be extinct, and two others, the 
western B. occidentalis and the eastern B. affinis, 
appear to be in steep decline... circumstantial 
evidence indicates that the principal cause for 
these population declines is the introduction of 
exotic disease organisms and pathogens via 
trafficking in commercial bumble bee queens and 
colonies for greenhouse pollination of tomatoes."
http://www.xerces.org/Pollinator_Red_List/Bees/Bombus_Bombus.pdf

So there's the open admission of the reality of
collateral damage as a result of exploitation in 
the name of conservation.

The National Academy of Sciences 2007 report "Status 
of Pollinators in North America" concludes that 
both Bombus occidentalis and Bombus Franklini 
have a status of "apparent local extinction".
http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?isbn=0309102898

So there's the confirmation that at least TWO 
species are considered by qualified experts to 
have been wiped out by bumblebee nosema from Europe.

But I'm sure you'll find some way to painfully
parse the plain language of the quotes, and 
claim that there is another meaning for
words like "extinction".  

> Sorry, Jim, I find that conclusion just plain wrong...
> You are reading something into it that is not there.

You are certainly entitled to offer an alternative
reading of any text you'd like, no matter how tortured
and contrived the interpretation.
 
But I think it would be more accurate to merely say 
that "you disagree", as you have no support for your
contention beyond the contention itself, and you have
nothing in the way of added value to offer that might 
hint that those of us who look askance at the situation 
"are wrong".

So, perhaps you need to go back and READ THE THREAD.  
Also the Senate testimony.  Also the bills.
And as much pollinator propaganda as you can stomach.
A number of people have posted URLs and quote of 
easy-to-find and clear examples that all clearly
and consistently:

a) Point to CCD and the other problems of Honey Bees,
   encouraging panic as the appropriate response
   when we still have no idea what CCD is, or even
   if it is anything posing a serious threat to
   beekeeping as a whole.
   
b) Trot out alternative pollinators as if they were
   a viable alternative to Honey Bees for the sort 
   of large-scale, vast monoculture that is modern
   agriculture.

c) Make smug references to subjective "advantages"
   of these alternative pollinators over honey bees
   (when objective criteria would refute the claims).

d) Neglect to mention that using these alternative
   pollinators would require nothing less than a
   return to "The 1940s" in regard to agricultural
   "best practices".

e) Completely ignore the amazing correlation between
   the claimed "loss of native pollinators", and the
   introduction of tracheal mites and varroa to the
   USA.  In other words, the pollination being done
   by feral honey bee colonies was a big part of 
   the pollination credited to the "alternative
   pollinators".
 
So, I'll say it again:

If it looks like a coattail, drags across the floor
like a coattail, and has a whole buncha people
hanging onto it that we've never heard of before,
then it is reasonable to conclude that there was
and still is some coattail riding going on.

But, not to worry, we have the USDA plan, and
it only took some poking with sharp sticks to
get "industry leaders" and "major players"
to realize that one has to ASK for money, and
ASK for "emergency funding".

All in all, I think we are back on track.

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